Red Arrows in Turmoil ?

[Enobob]

No dotwatcher. You need to read any one of a few Hawker Siddeley autobiographies, and/or RAF publications to see how the Hawk/HS1182 came about following the change in intended use of the Jaguar!

[Enobob]

However dotwatcher, you are right about Hawker Siddeley working on what became the HS1182 using company funds, and was eventually selected over the rival BAC P.59 offering as the Hawk. So, whilst we are both right, you are most definitely not wrong!

[dotwatcher01]

However dotwatcher, you are right about Hawker Siddeley working on what became the HS1182 using company funds, and was eventually selected over the rival BAC P.59 offering as the Hawk. So, whilst we are both right, you are most definitely not wrong!

Wow, glad Wikipedia actually got something right As for various comments about restarting the line, I never suggested that, my suggestion was that some extra T-2 standard aircraft could (should) have been built "on approval" as it were - thus guaranteeing a credible display jet for, arguably, the world's favourite display team.

[Supra]

Even more embarrassment . Reds disappoint at the Final display for RAF Scampton Closing Ceremony. Only able to start the display with 6 jets, even though Scampton is their Home-base for now. You really do have to wonder if this pattern of failures is sustainable? They're still talking about a Middle East Tour this year....Really?
Copied here from the "SPOTTERS AREA - SERIALS AND AIRFIELD LOGS" below with due credit to the OP.

Re: Scampton's last Hurrar
Unread post by Agent K » Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:48 pm
reaper493 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:40 pm
Only 6 Arrows in the formation - disappointing.
Which is better than the 4 that flew in the distance from Old Warden yesterday having elected to not perform their scheduled fly past due to the "weather"......

You just wonder whether they will ever return to a 9-ship (or even survive into next year) with an aircraft that is end of life and nowhere else in service other than the Reds, if they can't even muster a 7-ship nowadays.

[jagmadandy]

The final display for the closure parade at 16:45 consisted of solely the Synchro Pair. 7 passes and the heart. A very embarrassing & lacklustre way to close of 106 years of flying from the historic station. The Lancaster was the star of the show hands down flying over the parade low whilst the college band played the Dambuster's theme.

[Drinkmat]

Embarrassing is a good word to describe the Red Arrows at the moment. I feel strong and effective leadership is the only way they can recover their reputation.

[Agent K]

And just issued from the Guernsey Air Display:

DISPLAY UPDATE*

Due to a technical problem with one of the jets, the Red Arrows are unable to display at this year’s Guernsey Air Display.

We’re so sorry, we know this will be disappointing for air display fans.

[cat1]

Strange
They did display

[cat1]

Not to overshadow the death of HM The Queen,
But I heard that the red arrows would be disbanded when the Queen dies
Just a rumor or is there any clarification on this?

[Pune]

Not to overshadow the death of HM The Queen,
But I heard that the red arrows would be disbanded when the Queen dies
Just a rumor or is there any clarification on this?

Silly rumour I would think..

[Red-Eye-Knight]

Not to overshadow the death of HM The Queen,
But I heard that the red arrows would be disbanded when the Queen dies
Just a rumor or is there any clarification on this?

Never heard of that before.

[Supra]

Not heard of this before now, but seems like a reasonable deal to me!

[cat1]

i think that the red arrows stopping and formation of a new display team would properly credit how highly she was held in regard by the British people?!
suggestions?

[herc15]

i think that the red arrows stopping and formation of a new display team would properly credit how highly she was held in regard by the British people?!
suggestions?

Sorry I just don't understand your logic or lack thereof.
The Red Arrows represent the RAF not the Commander in Chief directly. Why would the RAF disband the team that has a huge worldwide following and that bring so much money into the UK in trade in a way that cannot really measured. All this to repaint the jets in a different livery and reform it under a different name which then has to take years building up its reputation and 'brand recognition'. The Reds can and no doubt will celebrate the life of H.M. and pay their respects but I don't see the logic in disbanding such an iconic team. If anything the Red Arrows continuing would better honour the way she served this nation with a incredible sense of duty.

Anyway i'll look forward to seeing the Burgundy Darts next year

[cat1]

1. The red arrows *brand* is comprised of many things. Yes, the red jets, but also the late diamond nine which the red arrows can no longer do.
2. As has long been discussed elsewhere in the forum, the red arrows where created partly to show the ability of the hawk aircraft, so that is no longer relevant.
3. Is a team made up of a non symmetrical display and non smoking jets, not to mention pilots who seem to not hold the red arrows very highly in opinion the best we can put forward as a country?
4. OK so the reds aren't just for the queen. They are, however a demonstration of the entire RAF.
Imagine your self as a tourist. Welcome to the best the raf has to offer! A load of old trainers which we spend millions on just to keep in the air! Oh, and by the way, if, not when, they do fly, some aren't fitted with smoke.

Maybe the solo typhoon display team is enough...

[Mike]

The Red Arrows were flying Folland Gnats long before the Hawk was invented, get your facts right please!

[Vulcanone]

Ah thank ya very much ....in an Elvis voice...


God forbid some folks on this forum don't or didn't work in any form of publishing.....

[Vulcanone]

Imagine the late great Bruce Robertson, Bill Gunston. And creators of RAF Flying Review, Observers book of Aircraft, RAF Yearbooks, Air International, Air Enthusiast.... Namely William Green and Gordon Swanborough forgetting them little Red pocket rockets. Even Paul Jackson and Lindsay Peacock wouldn't do that...

[NorvilleRogers]

1. The red arrows *brand* is comprised of many things. Yes, the red jets, but also the late diamond nine which the red arrows can no longer do.
2. As has long been discussed elsewhere in the forum, the red arrows where created partly to show the ability of the hawk aircraft, so that is no longer relevant.
3. Is a team made up of a non symmetrical display and non smoking jets, not to mention pilots who seem to not hold the red arrows very highly in opinion the best we can put forward as a country?
4. OK so the reds aren't just for the queen. They are, however a demonstration of the entire RAF.
Imagine your self as a tourist. Welcome to the best the raf has to offer! A load of old trainers which we spend millions on just to keep in the air! Oh, and by the way, if, not when, they do fly, some aren't fitted with smoke.

Maybe the solo typhoon display team is enough...

Total drivel.. the Red Arrows first display as the Reds was in 1965, the first display with Hawks was in 1980.

[Supra]

The Red Arrows 2022 has been & continues to be one enormous shambles from not quite picking the elite team, through adultery, attitude, morale, reduction of team aircraft, inability to supply just 7 aging serviceable jets, to the Nation's embarrassment that the 'Worlds's Premier Aerobatic Team' (allegedly) cannot string a reduced complete 7 jet display together on any given day! Yes, the Rhyl bird-strike wasn't their fault, but the end result was another incomplete display.
I am going to suggest that unless 15 (2 Teams of 7 + a spare) Red smoking Hawk T1's are not currently available to fly out, that the 2022 Middle East Tour is cancelled out of respect for the death of HM Elizabeth II.
Perfect reason to sit back & take-stock of their current (possibly temporary) hiatus & assess what purpose flying less of a more failing knackered old no-longer in-production jets overseas for a laughable 5-week Tour really achieves? If the Reds are a Flagship for the UK, then we're sunk.