XH558- we may loose her forever!

[Mayfly]

Thank you - I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

[NAM Updater]

NAM had a similar situation arise with the Rating Office when they were doing their recent valuations; it’s a lot to do with the SORP requirements for charities i.e. how the assets are valued and shown in the accounts.

NAM had to get all of its aircraft valued and under SORP these now sit as assets, which make you look ‘rich’ – sadly a situation not similarly reflected with cash in the bank! I believe this reporting method may be about to change.

[hawk t1]

i hope it stay flying ,its an amazing plane

[Mayfly]

The latest

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/138/ ... ppeal.html

[Rich H]

Ok, I only got a D at A-Level Accounting, but I know that "Fund Balance" is physical cash, be it in a bank or real (In your hand) cash.

It does not include Fixed Assests, which is all your cars, buildings, Vulcan(s), etc.

Hi Chris,

"Fund Balance" is the net worth of a fund, measured by the total assets minus total liabilties.

If you want to see this in action have a look at the Vulcan's accounts page 15. It shows the Funds Balance as approx £1.7m.

The calculations are above this figure and show it has been arrived at by adding together the total assets which are (I'm taking these from the accounts)

Fixed Assets (which are shown elsewhere in the doc as the Vulcan, spare parts and ground equipment)
Current Assets (Money at bank/in hand/debtors)

and then subtracting total liabilities which are

Creditors - due within one year
Net Current Liabilities
Creditors - due in more than one year

Regards,

Tacan

[POL]

Thanks, that'll explain why I got a D then!

[beefsteak]

I recieved this tonight

http://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/wlnk/c/1216/r/38672/e/99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rich H]

TACAN I may well be wrong and apologise un reservedly if i am, but can you explain where the surplus cash generated for the previous 8 years is accounted for.

Item 5 Financial review on page 9 states that £670,521 was written down as depreciation.

My understanding is that it is written off against the depreciation on the aircraft.

it is standard accounting to depreciate the assets which removes the cash from the accounts.

Again , i apologise if i'm wrong but in my last set of accounts i depreciated a machine at £16,000 for the year, this is real money accounted for by calling it depreciation.

This only happens in a balance sheet, not in the trading accounts.

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

Today was the first time I have ever looked at the Vulcan's accounts and as I said that was a quick look. Sorry, I can't explain about the last eight years.

Depreciation: I think what NAM Updater has said covers it very well for the purposes of this thread. It's just different!

From personal experience of preparing accounts for an organisation (non-aviation) for the Charity Commission, I can tell you they can be quite particular!

BTW, just so there is no misunderstanding or false impressions gained - I am not an accountant! I suspect , like you, understanding some of these things has been through necessity! When doing accountancy type stuff at uni and courses at work I came to fully appreciate Monty Python's someone ironic sketch 'Why accountancy is not boring'

Regards

And Keep the Vulcan Flying (and confession time - I have now donated)

Tacan

[old_git]

Just got in from being with my accountant all afternoon, he had a look at the accounts as posted and here are his comments.

For many years the VTST made a surplus.

The surplus had to go somewhere and it does not show on the balance sheet as cash.

It is normal in charity accounting to include a reserve fund in with the assets, this fund is treated as an asset, and is not refelcted in cash in hand or bank.

The cash asset is placed Alongside the metal assets, basically he is saying is the vulcan really worth 4 million, without its cash fund attached.

So Tacan is correct in the way he works out the assets minus the liabilities being the fund value.

However the accountant believes, looking at the increase in the asset value over time, this increase in value is due to the cash fund increasing.

He also states this is perfectly normal to place a non visible cash fund in the balance statement as part of the assets and the only people who will know for sure are the VTST.

So by adding it in the assets it increases the book value.

Not as a certain said "all bullplop"

and i too have donated.

[Sheff]

I had to smile when I looked at all the gossip on this subject over on UKAR. It seems that some people have only just started to look back at the whole saga and realise how much money Pleming has been creaming-off for his own pocket. It's quite laughable. Didn't they know?

Oh well, once again he's fed the nation another "last minute" plea which was presumably a lot of bull to try and rake yet more cash in, so that even more can be diverted into his own bank account. It really is lamentable that we continually hope that the Vulcan will continue flying while this muppet is sitting there pocketing thousands every week. In some ways it will be something of a relief when XH558 is finally grounded again because we can then be satisfied that Pleming will have to go and find another gravy train to climb aboard.

[hawk t1]

2days:needed £73,572

[NAM Updater]

Just got in from being with my accountant all afternoon, he had a look at the accounts as posted and here are his comments.

For many years the VTST made a surplus.

The surplus had to go somewhere and it does not show on the balance sheet as cash....

...The cash asset is placed Alongside the metal assets, basically he is saying is the vulcan really worth 4 million, without its cash fund attached....

I had a quick look through their accounts dated 31 July 2007 and a clue about the valuation of the aircraft may come from a note on Page 16 item 1.6 that states “Aircraft - No depreciation charged as an asset in course of construction”

I suspect this indicates that all of the money spent on returning XH558 to flight condition i.e. the HLF grant and donated money, has been allocated against the aircraft, hence its high accrued value.

During the look through the accounts I came across an interesting statement on Page 8 – “The National Heritage Memorial Fund maintains a charge over the aircraft in the amount of the HLF grant, as required by the Trust’s contract with them, which is covered by the aircraft’s Hull insurance.”

Also surly whilst raising funds for a project you would expect to show a cash surplus as you aren’t spending much on the task in hand i.e. returning it to flight; this would then reduce by being spent on the project.

[GOOSE]

£57,000 still needed.............

[beefsteak]

Oh pass me my ruddy cheque book!!

[GOOSE]

I've just buckled, £5.58 en route to their funds.............

If they are that close, I urge all who said they wouldn't pledge to maybe reconsider........

[GaryS]

According to their twitter page she was 'saved' yesterday!?another last minute miracle?how long til the next plea?february?

[Hurn]

There's no way the RAF can afford to take it on so you'll have to forget that idea.

[colt99]

Not an official one yet, but a good statement will be made tomorrow evening
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Dave

[Hurn]

It was announced a couple of days ago that the trust wouldn't be putting the project into administration as funds had been coming in sufficiently to hope the target could be met.

I guess now finally they've made the £400,000 needed which is good. I expect a fair few people were holding back in case it went under which is understandable and perhaps finally donated this weekend knowing their money wouldn't be going to pay off creditors.

Whatever, it's good that the Vulcan survives, although I certainly doubt this will be the last appeal for funding!

[headset 57]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-le ... e-11663661" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Air enthusiasts have raised enough money to save the world's last remaining flying Vulcan bomber just days before it was due to be grounded.

The Vulcan to The Sky Trust, which owns the Avro Vulcan XH558, needed to raise £400,000 to keep the aircraft flying.

The trust said it still needed to raise £75,000 before the end of October or the project would come to an end.

Donations over the weekend totalled £43,000 and trustees agreed the rest of the money could be raised later.

Nearly two million people have seen the restored Cold War bomber, described as a "national treasure", in action at air shows so far this year.


Trustees want the Vulcan, which receives no government funding and was restored at Bruntingthrope in Leicestershire, to fly for at least two more display seasons.

In a letter to supporters, trust chief executive Robert Pleming said the board of trustees said the trust had sufficient liquidity to continue to trade.

He said: "This is obviously really good news, and is very much down to you, our core supporters, and the desires of the wider public, who have dug deep into their pockets to move us forward once again."

The Vulcan made its maiden flight in 1952 and acted as a deterrent during the Cold War, and was used in combat in the Falklands War.

The last Vulcan was withdrawn from service in 1984, but the XH558 flew on from 1986 to 1993 as the single RAF display Vulcan.