XH558- we may loose her forever!

[old_git]

Now i'll rake up this old hobby horse.

VTST have 1.7 million sat in the bank at the end of 2009 on which they earned over a grand interest, so its real cash.

they had 2.2 million sat in the bank at the end of 2008.

They state their aim is to always have 1 years operating costs in reserve FACT.

that means the Vulcan always has at least one more year before it runs out of money, not a matter of days as claimed.

Sorry but they are facts, published by themselves and are not just opinions.

Geoff

[Mayfly]

Now i'll rake up this old hobby horse.

VTST have 1.7 million sat in the bank at the end of 2009 on which they earned over a grand interest, so its real cash.

they had 2.2 million sat in the bank at the end of 2008.

They state their aim is to always have 1 years operating costs in reserve FACT.

that means the Vulcan always has at least one more year before it runs out of money, not a matter of days as claimed.

Sorry but they are facts, published by themselves and are not just opinions.

Geoff

I'm sure this incorrect can you point me in the right direction to read it please?

[Hurn]

£1.7m tucked away in the bank!

Old Git, if you can prove to me that's true then I'll stop giving funding to VttS in an instant.

My own view is that your claim is bullsh*t but I'm here to being proved wrong.

[old_git]

READ THE ACCOUNTS.

page 10 Quote

5. Financial review ( continued)

Reserves Policy

The trust's reserves policy is to build up unrestricted funds in the form of committed or available cash to a level equivalent to 12 months of expenditure, that is about £2 million. In the current economic climate it has proved difficult to satisfy this policy, although the trustees have this as an important short-term target.

Page 14

Fund balance brought forward at 31st October 2009 - £1,740,128 2008 - £2,623,097

Page 15

Funds ( See Note 14 )

Group - £1,1740,128 Charity - £1,967,893

Note 14.

Reconcilliation in funds per consolidated statement of financial activities.

Net movement - (£882,969) Brackets means minus.

opening funds at at 1st august 2008 _ £2623,097

Closing funds at 31st October 2009 - £1,740,128


|Page 18 - |Interest received - £1,097

Page 18 - The parent company results for the year were a deficit of £687,580 ( 2008 a SURPLUS of £465,797 )

note the deficit was covered from the reserve fund.

sorry no bullplop here mate. Its all in the accounts.

and nobody stop giving, i want to see her keep flying as well.
Geoff

[Rich H]

Writing about the Vulcan was not my intended first written post, but here goes!

I have no involvemnet with the Vulcan, am not a member and have no axes to grind! I enjoy seeing it fly and have only donated the odd pound or two (because I have a number of other aircraft I help keep flying)

I have had a quick read of the 26 page document concerning the Vulcan's accounts and very quickly examined the figures.

No where in the accounts for the Vulcan, as far as I can see, does it show that they have either £1.7m in the bank or that they made £1k interest on that money.

I would suggest that the £1.7m referred to above is the current value of the project as it stands i.e taking all the Fixed Assets (aircraft, spares etc) adding to them any monies that the Vulcan is owed and subtracting from that total that the Vulcan owes to other people, either this year or in the future, leaving £1.7m, Net Assets.

The £1k interest comes from other sources, not by having £1.7m in the bank, and that is explained in note 3.

The accounts do state how much money is actually in the bank or at hand on Page 15: Group: £40,636 Charity: £17,971

In addition, the Group is owed £50,082 and the Charity £278,178 by their own respective debtors.

So, Current Assets for the Group are £90,718 and for the Charity £296,149. (i.e. not including the Fixed Assets)

Sadly, a long way from the £2m cash that the Vulcan project would like to have in the bank (i.e.one year's costs) (top of Page 10)

Regards

[Rich H]

READ THE ACCOUNTS....................

|Geoff

Hi Geoff,

You wrote your post while I was writing mine!

Unfortunately, the £1.7m you refer to includes the fixed assets i.e. the plane and the spares etc. On a quick reading of the accounts the £1.7m would only be realised if today they sold off the plane and all the spares etc, paid of all their debts (e.g. to Marshalls, Carlton and others) and received all the monies they are owed. In a perfect world that would leave them with £1.7m in cash, but no Vulcan !!!

Regards

[Hurn]

Tacan, thanks for clearing things up. I wish people would at least get their FACTS straight before spouting misinformation though.

I knew the target has always been to have a surplus in the bank (and why not) but was very sceptical that this has ever been achieved, nor do I think it ever will be.

[old_git]

TACAN I may well be wrong and apologise un reservedly if i am, but can you explain where the surplus cash generated for the previous 8 years is accounted for.

Item 5 Financial review on page 9 states that £670,521 was written down as depreciation.

My understanding is that it is written off against the depreciation on the aircraft.

it is standard accounting to depreciate the assets which removes the cash from the accounts.

Again , i apologise if i'm wrong but in my last set of accounts i depreciated a machine at £16,000 for the year, this is real money accounted for by calling it depreciation.

This only happens in a balance sheet, not in the trading accounts.

Geoff

[POL]

Ok, I only got a D at A-Level Accounting, but I know that "Fund Balance" is physical cash, be it in a bank or real (In your hand) cash.

It does not include Fixed Assests, which is all your cars, buildings, Vulcan(s), etc.

[Richard B]

£73K Needed as of 2 hours ago, thats 81% of the target with 2days left.
should be a meeting today by the trustees and the outcome of the project posted sometime today,
at a guess they will let the target run a bit longer and all should be ok for the winter.

[RJ79]

Is there a link to the accounts/charity statement anywhere? Perhaps I can interpret these as I have previously prepared charity accounts!

[Mayfly]

I have to confess that accounts baffle me completely - but I have never known the Trust to have any spare cash.

[RJ79]

In simple terms, there is a bank/cash balance of £40,636 not £1.7m, this is shown on page 15 under the heading 'Cash at Bank and In Hand'. The unrestricted funds are an accumulation of profits/losses over the years and not a reflection of what is sat in bank accounts or burning holes in peoples pockets (a common misunderstanding by people).

Hope that helps,

[Mayfly]

Thank you - I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

[NAM Updater]

NAM had a similar situation arise with the Rating Office when they were doing their recent valuations; it’s a lot to do with the SORP requirements for charities i.e. how the assets are valued and shown in the accounts.

NAM had to get all of its aircraft valued and under SORP these now sit as assets, which make you look ‘rich’ – sadly a situation not similarly reflected with cash in the bank! I believe this reporting method may be about to change.

[hawk t1]

i hope it stay flying ,its an amazing plane

[Mayfly]

The latest

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/138/ ... ppeal.html

[Rich H]

Ok, I only got a D at A-Level Accounting, but I know that "Fund Balance" is physical cash, be it in a bank or real (In your hand) cash.

It does not include Fixed Assests, which is all your cars, buildings, Vulcan(s), etc.

Hi Chris,

"Fund Balance" is the net worth of a fund, measured by the total assets minus total liabilties.

If you want to see this in action have a look at the Vulcan's accounts page 15. It shows the Funds Balance as approx £1.7m.

The calculations are above this figure and show it has been arrived at by adding together the total assets which are (I'm taking these from the accounts)

Fixed Assets (which are shown elsewhere in the doc as the Vulcan, spare parts and ground equipment)
Current Assets (Money at bank/in hand/debtors)

and then subtracting total liabilities which are

Creditors - due within one year
Net Current Liabilities
Creditors - due in more than one year

Regards,

Tacan

[POL]

Thanks, that'll explain why I got a D then!

[beefsteak]

I recieved this tonight

http://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/wlnk/c/1216/r/38672/e/99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;