XH558- we may loose her forever!

[markranger]

At the end of the day,some people will donate and some won't.

For me,I saw it at Marham this year(free loader from outside the airfield).

In my opinion it's worth a few quid donation, It was brilliant at Marham.
Yes i am member anyway and i tend to buy stuff from them at airshows,For me being a paying member and buying from the shop should be enough but i'm afraid it's not with the Vulcan,

Will i Donate a load of money towards it when i am a member......No, But i will give a fiver or a ten pound towards it.
Why?, because i want to.

We all have a choice,My choice is that i want to see her next year flying,If my five/ten pounds donation +membership fee is not enough then there is nothing i can do about that but at least i done my little bit Again.

Mark.

[turbosix]

I cringe when I see "Vulcan's future in the balance" for the 10th time in a few years. They need PROPER sponsorship or their project is doomed to failure. It's not such a bad idea to put the project on hold until proper sponsorship has been established. At least that way they can plan for the future without financial worry.

[Blackcat1]

Time to keep a Harrier flying for the future!!!!

[Thunder]

Well my view is that the project has been mismanaged from the start, but that's another topic that has been discussed before on here and on UKAR.

The unfortunate thing at the moment is that alot of people that have given in the past just won't have the money to spare, with the cost of living going up all the time and wages for most standing still, it is coming to the point that every pound counts. This project has been bailed out several times before by public donations and the likelihood of a big sponsor coming along is looking even more remote as companies also tighten their belts and reduce overheads.

The only opition is to ask Wayne Rooney if he would kindly donate 3 days wages to the cause. instead of taking Coleen to Dubai on holiday as that plan to win her over is obviously not working.


Do you think there will be a " Keep the Ark to the seas" project

[somerset]

this may be a silly point from someone young but we have battle of britian flight planes that are maintain for celebration of past greatness so y not add the vulcan to this as with out her dogged spirit we would have lost islands and lives in the falklands does this not qualify as a great victory.

My other gripe is over sponsorship why are there no great british companys coming forward wanting to back a brilliant peice of british engineering companys like virgin , dyson and british aerospace

i am only 25 so you say i am naive but i gave my donation last night and had 10 friends do the same today maybe its time to stand up and help.

thank you

[TankBuster]

Oh no not the begging bowl again .
Enough is enough now!


TankBuster

The begging bowl as allways been and will be, part and parcel of the project.

We spend lots of money going to Airshows in the summer, £30 on average for a gate price.
2 shows or more some months, so nothing wrong with chucking £10 or £30 at a project over the winter.

Will make your Airshow that bit better when you see the Sea vixen or Hunter, Vulcan etc.
and knowing you had part helping it be in front of you displaying.
the feel good factor.

Got a feeling i might just start deleteing negative comments regarding the Vulcan, just to much of it.

Not really a negative comment, it's my opinion.
I've donated plenty over the last few years, not that I can really afford to though. In fact my donations combined run into 3 figures, which is a drop in the ocean I know, but it counted when it mattered!
Its just a shame that TVOC dont seem to be able to make 558 pay for herself year after year. To rely on continuous donations when the country is in such a poor financial state offers no guarantees to the future of the project, it just continues to hang on a shoestring every year, but for how long remains to be seen...

People are more interested in keeping their jobs & houses at the moment than donating money to TVOC.
I know that the TVOC staff are also on 1 months notice which is a real blow to them, but the harsh reality is that this is due to the fact that 558 makes no profit for TVOC, resulting in a huge financial gap which leaves them to rely solely on donations, which are gradually becoming fewer. As sad as it is 558 is just too expensive to operate in these hard times.



TankBuster

[old_git]

Does it really matter if we lose her forever from the skies. Is it really such an icon of British engineering, what aspects make it such.

It can't hold a candle to Concorde for example.

Yes me and everyone would love to see it keep flying and have donated over the years with that aim, But the business plan simply doesn't stack up. And yes it is run as business supported by a charity.

i would love to see many many types still flying that i used to love watching at airshows,but they are gone and may never return. Thats life. and the Vulcan is just to complex and expensive to keep in the air.

Sometimes very tough decisions have to be made. and often it takes bigger balls to admit when its over than to plod along in this shambolic way.

As for why companies don't want to get involved, than you have to look at what's in it for them, its cheaper for Virgin to put a big balloon up at an airshow and will get as good an audience.

also who wants to associated with a nuclear Bomber of a an age everyone is trying to get away from, with a new era of non nuclear proliferation and no cold war.

Weapons are not sexy and will not sell more Hoovers or Airline tickets and BAE are already very heaviliy supporting the project and they derive some benefit as showing their capabilities.

Being in the motorsport industry i can assure you that there is very little sponsorship money about, and there is very tough competition for what money is out there, and to get a sniff you really have to do much more than TVOC are doing to secure sponsorship.

This will seem to be a negative post, but reality often seems negative if you are smitten.

Geoff

[Thunder]

is that this is due to the fact that 558 makes no profit for TVOC

TankBuster

Sums it all up when your only asset doesn't give you any financial return.

End it now, because it will be the same every 3 months from now until June, then with a week to go before the airshow season you'll get the ransom note " we need 200,000 pounds in order to appear at next weeks airshow and if we don't fly at the airshow we won't be in the public eye to attract sponsorship" well 2 years on the airshow circuit and you still haven't secured the big sponsor deal that you promise.

[RJ79]

Just my two penneth worth, I'm with the naysayers I'm afraid. When you make a 'donation', you expect someone/something to benefit from this eg disadvantaged children/animals/refugees etc. Whilst yes, the Vulcan is in the air and people pay their hard earned cash to go and see it as such, there is too much clutter surrounding the project that is also benefiting. One thing I have learnt over the years from my job is that people milk charities for all they can get before putting the money where it should be and whilst this isn't necessarily milking it per say, it certainly doesn't help to have a chairperson or whomever it is taking such an incredible amount when there are plenty of other people who would work tirelessly for a fraction of the cost that is being paid to Pleming and the exectutives (remember there are expenses and employers nic on top of a salary hiking the cost of a salary up by at least 12.8%).

Unfortunately yes big businesses aren't wanting to dip their hands in their pockets to 'sponsor' the project and that is understandable as they need to protect themselves before XH558. However what should of happened is whilst there was all the media hype when XH558 was prepared to go back in the air and around it's pre-flight test, Pleming et al should really have been busting a gut and working morning, noon and night to get funding as if I'm right in thinking (I may be wrong), the credit crunch wasn't kicking in until late 2007 (was a proper plan in place to show everything to prospective investors or just a group of enthusiastic enthusiasts doing a Dragons Den??) Once the hype died down it would always be a hard project to sell.

Anyway, I'm drifting slightly there but the point I'm trying to make now is that what everyone perceives as constant begging could have been avoided and to be brutally honest, at a time when everyone has to question what they can and can't afford, the timing is a little bit wrong in my eyes.

Just my thoughts,

[PR9]

Don't think incidents like the expiry of the airworthiness so close to Waddo helped.
I can't help think that while the Dr is in, the Vulcan will be out.

[old_git]

i had some in a pie for lunch, i wish you'd said earlier

[old_git]

allways read them, makes fun reading. but people don't like you pointing out stuff in them.

Such as Robert plemming being on a salary of £72,000 or the fact that the trust is sitting on a slush fund of £1.7 Million and still begging for cash.

Lots of good stuff in them, but as i said people don't like it when you point things out.

[GaryS]

All over the local news and press this evening!
So maybe the big 'last minute' donation will come again.
Does Pleming really need to take a £72,000 a year out of it?(2009)seems a bit steep to me?

[pikey01]

i've raised the same question over on UKAR and received a frosty reception

Raise any question on Ukar and you will receive a frosty reception, unless of course your one of their gang

[pikey01]

You might want to read that thread again! Everyones favourite vulcan supporter doesn't agree

[GOOSE]

Mapo - grateful if your opinion of our friends over at UKAR and your verbal sparring with a staff member does not bring our own forum into disrepute.

[Mayfly]

mapo in case you didn't realise Dr P worked for 3 years for nothing to get 558 in the air at the equivalent of £72k pa that equates to a donation of £216k - pretty generous in my book.

[GOOSE]

Mapo, while I'm sure your intentions are good, you are being very naive regarding business.

Sorry, really don't mean to be harsh and your opinion is welcome, but in a project such as this £72k is a small sum.

Once again, no offence meant.

[Hurn]

Mapo, you not opened a can of worms at all.

The document and what Pleming earns is well known to most people who frequent the various aviation forums and has been discussed at length on most.

You're simply raking up old ground and tbh it's gotten rather boring now.

[old_git]

to be honest the normal process is not to take a big wage at all, for tax reasons.

the norm is to take a small nominal wage, then take a share dividend from the profits of the business. and hopefully bang a bit into your pension.

The norm is also to lead by example and only take from the profits, after you've secured the business for another year.

It seems that only charities' diretors are keen to take big fat salaries, wheras the rest of us rely on growing the business to make money.

My view remains that the VTST charity should tender out the operating of the aircraft, not simply give the money to TVOC every year. The only way to get value for money is competition, i'm sure Marshals or BAE would tender for the whole operating business or maybe someone like Virgin would take it on if they could make as much profit as TVOC does.

Geoff