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216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

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Thunder
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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by Thunder » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:04 pm

Interesting, but how hard would it be for enemy air defences to work out the difference between a drone and an aircraft?

baz1
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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by baz1 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:06 pm

maybe by size??

Agent K
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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by Agent K » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:09 pm

baz1 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:06 pm
maybe by size??
Size can easily be masked or enhanced (it's more complicated than that), stealth, shape, material, luneburg lenses etc. etc. but I'm not sure that's the point, surely swarming is just that, to completely overwhelm the defences to render them failed.

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Thunder
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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by Thunder » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:33 pm

I would have thought that operating height would be the give away, as surely any a/c would have to operate either well above or below the drone package.

Doughnut
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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by Doughnut » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:16 pm

Think the "swarm" idea is to produce a modern equivalent to the WW2 use of "chaff" code name "Window" where by very cheap products are released over the battle field to simply overwhelm the target defences allowing the attack to proceed unhindered. The more advanced use of a swarm to provide an attack force is also possible but expect that to be very expensive and difficult to operate and may be a long way in the future.

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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by roughcutter » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:26 pm

...possible future cut-price replacement for the Reds? :whistle:
A woman phoned the BBC to say a hurricane is on the way. Well if you're listening, it isn't

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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by filmman » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:19 pm

Actually, an old idea that might now really have come of age. The Quail radar decoy missile/drone (450 mile range), upto 12 could be carried by a B52 (1962 to 1972). With modern electronics, computers, sensors, jammers and sub missiles it could be a cheap nasty weapon.system that could deploy a dynamic swarm around aircraft. They might even land back in their host aircraft. Some copies of quail are in museums. Could be a dreadnought moment.
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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by T_J » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:11 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndFKUKHfuM0
In one of the most significant tests of autonomous systems under development by the Department of Defense, the Strategic Capabilities Office, partnering with Naval Air Systems Command, successfully demonstrated one of the world’s largest micro-drone swarms at China Lake, California. The test, conducted in October 2016 and documented on Sunday’s CBS News program “60 Minutes”, consisted of 103 Perdix drones launched from three F/A-18 Super Hornets. The micro-drones demonstrated advanced swarm behaviors such as collective decision-making, adaptive formation flying, and self-healing.
https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Releas ... nstration/

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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by KyleG » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:14 pm

romeo bravo wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:18 pm
big john wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:51 am
It won't be on an airfield as its illegal to fly drones within an airfield Flight Restriction Zone.
Not factually correct as RAF have 'flown' security drones around stations in the past and 700X operates out of RNAS Culdrose AFAIR

Just for clarity and info, 700X is based at Culdrose and have all their facilities there, but their flying when 'on base' is at RNAS Predannack.

All of the issues with restrictions of flight within ATZs I'm sure won't remain the case for long with military UAVs. It wasn't that long ago that UAVs weren't trusted to operate alongside civilian aircraft at all, now they do so on a regular basis with no issues. MQ-9B was designed specifically for this. And as for smaller systems, I recall a UAV trial in the Gatwick ATZ several years ago (not a joke about the drone incident, an actual police trial).
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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by Agent K » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:11 am

Thunder wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:33 pm
I would have thought that operating height would be the give away, as surely any a/c would have to operate either well above or below the drone package.
Would they? I think you'll find they'll fly with the formation.

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Thunder
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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by Thunder » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:19 pm

Wouldn’t there be a major risk of the a/c ingesting the drones. The drones may be able to avoid one another but an a/c trying to avoid hundreds of drones in close proximity?

EGVP
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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by EGVP » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:23 pm

If only the MOD had a squadron to think about these issues and come up with solutions...

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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by 100arw » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:18 pm

At the Russian demo at "Army 18" in Alabino, the drones were contained within pods released from a fast jet and a helicopter. When released they were pre-programmed for either explosive use or spot jamming.

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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by Richard B » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:00 pm

Look what the Chinese can do with a swarm of drones, New years drones in China is worth a look on you tube.

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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by Vulcanone » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:31 pm


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Nighthawke
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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by Nighthawke » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:04 pm

Something similar for the 2018 Winter Olympics opening ceremony too. So the basic "groundwork" has been done already to work out multiple control etc.

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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by Snoop 95 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:20 am

It seems from this MoD website that RAF Honington is already home to drone deployment, so possibly the new squadron could be there too.
https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisation ... s-phase-2/

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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by wolfie138 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:20 am

speaking of SAMs, wouldn't drones be a good use as a decoy? they could fly close together, even in a "plane" formation, and after a missile is launched they could fragment and the missile would lose lock and be wasted. rinse, repeat.

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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by baz1 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:48 am

and then were would the missile land up and cause damage?

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Re: 216 Sqn to stand up in April as a swarm drone squadron

Post by Agent K » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:43 pm

baz1 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:48 am
and then were would the missile land up and cause damage?
Where missiles that fail to acquire the target usually land!

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