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Spatial awareness blame for Japanese F35 crash.

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Richard B
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Spatial awareness blame for Japanese F35 crash.

Post by Richard B » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:52 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48578178
Interesting read when the big selling point and hype on this jet is, how super duper its
Situational spatial awareness is, plus ease of workload for the pilot.

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T_J
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Re: Spatial awareness blame for Japanese F35 crash.

Post by T_J » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:25 pm

It is a cause of many crashes regardless of the capabilities of the aircraft. If the pilot is disorientated mind and body is telling him/her something else is going on. It might have nothing to do with the pilot's workload at the time but simply vertigo as suggested.

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Re: Spatial awareness blame for Japanese F35 crash.

Post by PeteHemsley » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:48 pm

After recently being in an aircraft where the pilot in command completely lost spacial awareness during IMC conditions, I can say it certainly happens very quick and pilots reactions whilst the brain is in control can be irradic and life threatening. I'd imagine having the same thing happen at 600kts is horrific and reduction in time to react can be catastrophic as this and many other accident prove.

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Re: Spatial awareness blame for Japanese F35 crash.

Post by Vulcanone » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:52 pm

A similar case of disorientation happened with the 28th EAW B-1B in December 2001. Having left DG its crew declared an emergency at 100 miles after engine and then electrical and other systems failures, the crew eventually lost use of the attitude indicator. In near total darkness over a very calm Pacific Ocean with only starlight, the crew had difficulty determining whether they were flying straight and level.

They finally realised they were inverted and heading for the ocean below. Thankfully all ejected and only suffered minor injuries.

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Re: Spatial awareness blame for Japanese F35 crash.

Post by Richard B » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:12 pm

Seems they are fitting the Auto UCAS system into the F35s from now, the same system that's been in use on the likes of the F16 for a number of years.

Really surprised it was not on the F35 as standard, given its so called techno superiority.
This system will level out the aircraft and fly it straight and level.

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Re: Spatial awareness blame for Japanese F35 crash.

Post by Doughnut » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:53 am

Maybe having no dual control training aircraft and too much time flying the simulators ?

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Re: Spatial awareness blame for Japanese F35 crash.

Post by Vulcanone » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:24 am

They never had any dual control F-117s or F-22s and haven't lost many of them. And I bet the F-22 guys spend quite a bit of time in the sim just like the RAF Typhoon pilots do

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Re: Spatial awareness blame for Japanese F35 crash.

Post by Richard B » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:26 pm

Vulcanone wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:24 am
They never had any dual control F-117s or F-22s and haven't lost many of them. And I bet the F-22 guys spend quite a bit of time in the sim just like the RAF Typhoon pilots do
The F22 is Auto GCAS just like the F16,
Let go of the stick or relax the pressure it should kick in and recover the aircraft,.in to level flight and stop it crashing into the ground.

Its saved many pilots lives that have got into issues.

The US Air Force’s 461st Flight Test Squadron recently began flight testing the Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (Auto GCAS) aboard the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II at Edwards Air Force Base in California.
Auto GCAS uses sensors on a fighter aircraft, terrain data and other on-board monitors to look out for a likely ground collision. Based on the aircraft’s trajectory, speed, and lack of input from the pilot, the system then calculates the best way to recover to a safe trajectory, automatically overrides the flight controls and flies the aircraft away from danger. Ground collision is often the result of pilot disorientation, from a scenario such as target-fixation, or gravity-induced loss of consciousness.

USAF F-35A
USAF
The technology has been integrated into the Lockheed Martin F-16 and the Lockheed Martin F-22 already, and has been credited with saving the lives of a number of pilots. The system, which was developed by Lockheed Martin, was previously tested at Edwards AFB, hence the use of the base for current testing.
The USAF envisions not only using the automated flying ability of Auto GCAS for avoiding collisions with the ground but also to make the F-35 a more capable aircraft in dogfights, says Lt Col Raven LeClair, a test pilot with the 461st Flight Test Squadron.
“This technology is the stepping stone to increased combat capability via a fully capable combat autopilot that will be able to execute tactical manoeuvres to defeat inbound kinetic and non-kinetic threats, and maximise lethality through precise weapon employment,” says LeClair. “The future F-35 pilot is going to be a lethal battlefield manager with automated tools at his fingertips to ensure survivability and lethality.”

Shame its only just being looked at, why the F16 in a tight turning burning dog fight would beat the current F35, or could pull high G to avoid say a missile. The F35 would run the risk of getting G lock or disorientation with nothing to save him, the F16 F22 etc do have.

Can they retrofit this into the current F35s, or will just the later future ones have.

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Re: Spatial awareness blame for Japanese F35 crash.

Post by Doughnut » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:02 pm

Doughnut wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:53 am
Maybe having no dual control training aircraft and too much time flying the simulators ?
I admit to having no facts to back this up but would assume all F-117 pilots were experienced fighter pilots before being assigned to the F-117 because of its alleged handling difficulties.
As the F-35 becomes the standard fighter jet with many air forces around the world expect, for some pilots, will be their first "fast jet"

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Re: Spatial awareness blame for Japanese F35 crash.

Post by quid21 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:17 pm

Doughnut wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:02 pm
Doughnut wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:53 am
Maybe having no dual control training aircraft and too much time flying the simulators ?
I admit to having no facts to back this up but would assume all F-117 pilots were experienced fighter pilots before being assigned to the F-117 because of its alleged handling difficulties.
As the F-35 becomes the standard fighter jet with many air forces around the world expect, for some pilots, will be their first "fast jet"
True, but an aircraft that flew most of it's early years at night - the F-117 had at least a couple of spatially disorientated pilots who crashed/ejected - some of this possibly down to pilot fatigue as well as environmental factors like darkness and no visual cues to identify which way is up.

The SR-71 had the cream of the crop in it's pilot cadre and also suffered from night time spatial disorientation caused by moonless nights, high altitude etc - this was only cured when the Peripheral Vision Device (PVD) was added - it consisted of a laser projected line which flashed when at too steep AOA and too steep a bank.

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