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RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

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eagle driver
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RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by eagle driver » Tue May 14, 2019 6:53 am

AF to get second-hand jets as part of Wedgetail buy

13 May 2019

BY: Dominic Perry
FlightGlobal

London — Two of the U.K.’s five on-order Boeing E-7
Wedgetail airborne early warning and control aircraft will be
converted commercial airliners, the Ministry of Defence has
confirmed.

London on 22 March signed a £1.5 billion ($1.96 billion)
contract for the 737-based Wedgetails, which will be operated by
the Royal Air Force.

In a letter to the defence select committee, Stuart Andrew,
minister for defence procurement, states that only three of the
aircraft will be new-build examples.

“Boeing has sourced two 737NGs from the commercial market
and secured a further three production slots on [its] Seattle
production line in 2021 and 2022 to meet our needs,” he
says.

No details of the age or history of the two second-hand aircraft
have been revealed.

Modification of the first aircraft is due to start in 2021, says
Andrew, with the final example to be completed in 2026. Work on
each aircraft is anticipated to take around 24 months.

scottoz8
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by scottoz8 » Tue May 14, 2019 8:04 am

Could the two jets be "White tails" ??

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plmc135
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by plmc135 » Tue May 14, 2019 8:19 am

Unlikely as the E-7A is based on the Boeing 737-700NG air frame, not many have been built lately.

Vulcanone
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Vulcanone » Tue May 14, 2019 8:55 am

And P-8 Poseidon is based on the 737-800 airframe.

Supra
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Supra » Tue May 14, 2019 9:25 am

Is the RAF that desperate that they are willing to accept any old bodge-up? Why does the UK seem to buy 'cheap' but ultimately pay more for their procurements? :roll:

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TonyO
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by TonyO » Tue May 14, 2019 10:50 am

Boeing 737-700 is still in production, the US Navy and Marines are still taking delivery of C-40s which are essentially the same airframe. It is likely that the RAF which had some of the last 707s off the line for their E-3s, will also have the last 737-700s.

Agent K
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Agent K » Tue May 14, 2019 1:15 pm

Supra wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:25 am
Is the RAF that desperate that they are willing to accept any old bodge-up? Why does the UK seem to buy 'cheap' but ultimately pay more for their procurements? :roll:
Why is this a bodge up? I'd suspect all airframes will be brought up to a common standard, will have a useful life and longevity and save cost by approaching it this way? seems a win-win to me.

Vulcanone
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Vulcanone » Tue May 14, 2019 2:13 pm

Well whenever they get final fitting out here in the UK, maybe it will be at whichever the new base Marshalls are planning on moving to.

Sparts99
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Sparts99 » Tue May 14, 2019 4:08 pm

Agent K wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:15 pm
Supra wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:25 am
Is the RAF that desperate that they are willing to accept any old bodge-up? Why does the UK seem to buy 'cheap' but ultimately pay more for their procurements? :roll:
Why is this a bodge up? I'd suspect all airframes will be brought up to a common standard, will have a useful life and longevity and save cost by approaching it this way? seems a win-win to me.
Airliners have very good fatigue lives don't they? They'll accumulate hours at a much slower rate with RAF than as an airliner.
In this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.

ColintheCaterpillar
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Tue May 14, 2019 5:05 pm

Supra wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:25 am
Is the RAF that desperate that they are willing to accept any old bodge-up? Why does the UK seem to buy 'cheap' but ultimately pay more for their procurements? :roll:
It’s not a bodge up. Wedgetail conversions have historically been done in country. Purchasing low houred civilian airframes saves waiting for a production line slot - after all the Wedgetail is converted from a completed 737NG airframe; it isn’t built as a Wedgetail.

Considering the flying hours and cycles won’ be wracked up as they would be on a civvy operated jet, it seems a good deal for the taxpayer and possibly avoids any slippage to the project as it replaces E-3D.

Precinct7
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Precinct7 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:39 pm

and nor forgetting that the "new " Air Force 1 are a pair on B747'' that were stored form new at Mojave for a cancelled Russian airline order

Agent K
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Agent K » Tue May 14, 2019 8:33 pm

Sparts99 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:08 pm
Agent K wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:15 pm
Supra wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:25 am
Is the RAF that desperate that they are willing to accept any old bodge-up? Why does the UK seem to buy 'cheap' but ultimately pay more for their procurements? :roll:
Why is this a bodge up? I'd suspect all airframes will be brought up to a common standard, will have a useful life and longevity and save cost by approaching it this way? seems a win-win to me.
Airliners have very good fatigue lives don't they? They'll accumulate hours at a much slower rate with RAF than as an airliner.
Exactly, I’ve managed airliner fleets that get to 90K + hours.

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Dazza37
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Dazza37 » Wed May 15, 2019 1:17 am

Supra wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:25 am
Is the RAF that desperate that they are willing to accept any old bodge-up? Why does the UK seem to buy 'cheap' but ultimately pay more for their procurements? :roll:
Image

-Dazza
I rock, you don't...

Vulcanone
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Vulcanone » Wed May 15, 2019 8:45 am

Has anyone ever complained that the new car they bought had a few miles on the clock? Well I suspect some folk on here probably have judging by this

So we get a couple of slightly used 737s to get the process started, with slots in production for the other three...

Jesus, stop bitching and get a life ? The sooner the E-3s are relieved has to be for the better. I haven't noticed any flying lately (assume someone nearer to Waddington can confirm)

ColintheCaterpillar
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Wed May 15, 2019 8:58 am

Vulcanone wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:45 am
I haven't noticed any flying lately (assume someone nearer to Waddington can confirm)
How long is “lately”?

Vulcanone
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Vulcanone » Wed May 15, 2019 9:03 am

....
Last edited by Vulcanone on Wed May 15, 2019 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Vulcanone
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Vulcanone » Wed May 15, 2019 9:05 am

I haven't noticed any showing on any radar sites for a few days, not saying they haven't been flying. Nor that I'm going to ring mother near Waddo for an accurate assessment either.

Agent K
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Agent K » Wed May 15, 2019 11:32 am

Vulcanone wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:45 am
Has anyone ever complained that the new car they bought had a few miles on the clock? Well I suspect some folk on here probably have judging by this

So we get a couple of slightly used 737s to get the process started, with slots in production for the other three...

Jesus, stop bitching and get a life ? The sooner the E-3s are relieved has to be for the better. I haven't noticed any flying lately (assume someone nearer to Waddington can confirm)
Unfortunately I think some of those who don't have any experience of procuring, manufacturing, operating, managing, modifying fill those voids with ill founded conjecture.

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Thunder
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Thunder » Wed May 15, 2019 11:59 am

Are the E-3D’s really in such a bad state? I know they lag behind the USA, French, NATO and Saudis in effectiveness of onboard sensors/radar, but to the extent and they hardly fly anymore, is it really that bad? We haven’t even reached 30yrs of service yet, even the old Shack was more reliable if true.

Vulcanone
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Re: RAF to get second hand jets in wedgetail buy

Post by Vulcanone » Wed May 15, 2019 9:48 pm

Meanwhile.....

The RAAF bought secondhand A330s to boost its KC30 fleet (they were built after the first and before the second KC30s)….


https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/e-7-wed ... -aircraft/

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