British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

[archermav1596]

Saw this on FB this morning. Seems a fairly straight forward "breach of contract" type issue. No reply from GJD as of yet. Most odd.

[Bushpilot]

I trust that any parts supplied/donated by BPAG volunteers will be returned to their original owners.

[tc2324]

Evening all.

Posting this update on behalf of the BPAG and the 74(F) Tiger Squadron Association and I think it best if I let the following photo taken from the September issue of Flypast Magazine do the talking ........


https://flic.kr/p/2gLpFYF


Watch this space for more updates and information on this restoration project.

[Hurrican]

I did read on here somewhere she was going to a location in south wales ?

[POL]

XV582 did yes, and it's one of the aircraft that'll be available at this event: https://www.threshold.aero/events/28-Se ... p144808922

Hopefully ZE360 can be saved from the axe at Manston.

[The Phantom]

Good luck to them.

They did a super job on Black Mike

[Snoop 95]

I note the concerns about the airframe being in a seaside environment having a detremental effect, but that cannot be worse than being on an aircraft carrier! I recall that when we had aircraft carriers the aircraft that used them had to be "navalised", which I believe meant that various ferrous components had to be replaced by alloy ones. Hopefully the fact that this aircraft was built a US Navy machine will mean that the frame might be in a better condition that had it not been so.
Good luck to the restoration team and living near Wattisham I have a particular interest in progress.

[tc2324]

Thanks for the good wishes all.

When the J`s went through San Diego and refurbished they in effect became zero timed again so there`s always hope the internal airframe is in a reasonable condition. We just wont know until we can get inside to look.

I have now set up a ZE360 Restoration page on the association website for anyone interested and I welcome contributions to it as it`s very much a work in progress, (link below).

http://74sqdn.tk/ze360-restoration-page/

[GOOSE]

Just catching up with this topic and the "split" between BPAG and GJD. Is anything further known and have any reasons come to light?

From the little information posted, within this thread, it seems quite odd? Apologies if this is all "old news" and has been commented on elsewhere.

[tc2324]

Just catching up with this topic and the "split" between BPAG and GJD. Is anything further known and have any reasons come to light?

From the little information posted, within this thread, it seems quite odd? Apologies if this is all "old news" and has been commented on elsewhere.

I think the most diplomatic answer, from my understanding, is that a gentleman`s agreement/understanding fell through. Fundamentally BM is safe and on display, however I see no point in dwelling on the past.

On the plus side, valuable lessons were learnt from the whole BM project and BPAG are moving onwards and upwards with other projects in the pipework. Like for instance, ZE360 with the full support and assistance of the 74 Tiger Association behind them.

[Seahornet1]

I note the concerns about the airframe being in a seaside environment having a detremental effect, but that cannot be worse than being on an aircraft carrier! I recall that when we had aircraft carriers the aircraft that used them had to be "navalised", which I believe meant that various ferrous components had to be replaced by alloy ones. Hopefully the fact that this aircraft was built a US Navy machine will mean that the frame might be in a better condition that had it not been so.
Good luck to the restoration team and living near Wattisham I have a particular interest in progress.

No, seaside storage is much worse than being on and aircraft carrier. Carriers have hangar decks, where the jets are kept warm and dry; they would only normally be out on the deck for operational periods before and after sorties. They would be regularly cleaned, salt deposits removed, and vulnerable components greased. Sitting in a light marine atmosphere at Manston for year after year, with little or no attention is way more damaging.

When land-based aircraft are 'navalised', components which are assessed as being unacceptably vulnerable to marine corrosion may be changed to a similar but more resistant material (e.g. stainless steel replacing carbon steel), an alternative heat treatment condition (e.g. T7 overaged condition for high-strength Al alloys), or an improved or thicker surface protection treatment. Ferrous components might be replaced by a corrosion-resistant alloy steel, but not usually by light alloys, if that's what you meant...?

However, the Phantom never needed to be navalised, as it was designed for carrier-based operations from the outset.

[Snoop 95]

I note the concerns about the airframe being in a seaside environment having a detremental effect, but that cannot be worse than being on an aircraft carrier! I recall that when we had aircraft carriers the aircraft that used them had to be "navalised", which I believe meant that various ferrous components had to be replaced by alloy ones. Hopefully the fact that this aircraft was built a US Navy machine will mean that the frame might be in a better condition that had it not been so.
Good luck to the restoration team and living near Wattisham I have a particular interest in progress.

No, seaside storage is much worse than being on and aircraft carrier. Carriers have hangar decks, where the jets are kept warm and dry; they would only normally be out on the deck for operational periods before and after sorties. They would be regularly cleaned, salt deposits removed, and vulnerable components greased. Sitting in a light marine atmosphere at Manston for year after year, with little or no attention is way more damaging.

When land-based aircraft are 'navalised', components which are assessed as being unacceptably vulnerable to marine corrosion may be changed to a similar but more resistant material (e.g. stainless steel replacing carbon steel), an alternative heat treatment condition (e.g. T7 overaged condition for high-strength Al alloys), or an improved or thicker surface protection treatment. Ferrous components might be replaced by a corrosion-resistant alloy steel, but not usually by light alloys, if that's what you meant...?

However, the Phantom never needed to be navalised, as it was designed for carrier-based operations from the outset.

Very interesting and thanks for putting forward what must be considered to be an 'expert' contibution. As a layman in these things it's good to have a better-informed view.

[tc2324]

Another article on the project in the Spotter E-Magazine from page 100 for those interested. (The rest of the magazine isnt bad either.... )

https://issuu.com/spottermagazine/docs/ ... mseJNvJeOY

Also just a reminder that if you do wish to donate to this worthwhile project, you will find details on how to on the 74 Tiger Sqn Associations 360 Restoration page. (Link in previous post)

[Sparts99]

Another point about the corrosion issue, when an aircraft is flown any moisture in the joints etc is purged. If left idle the moisture remains and especially where different metals are in contact corrosion can develop really quickly.

[tc2324]

Very pleased to announce that ZE360 now has a stable mate in the shape of F-4 Phantom FG.1 XT597 .........

https://flic.kr/p/2gTypYZ
(Photo from the Everett Aero website)

597 will join 360 at it`s new home in due course.

More news soon.

[iainpeden]

That is phantastic news.

[jakdaw]

Very excited about this project, they are proper enthusiasts at BPAG, its been a rocky road so far but hopefully its looking like there is going to be something to get there teeth into and enjoy the results. Look forward to seeing the three marks under one roof together and if Black Mike & 490 are anything to go by they will look amazing.

[Van Bullitt]

Excellent news about XT597. I would like to see her kept in Raspberry ripple as we already have the two at Yeovilton in navy marks but I'm easy anyhow as long as Phantoms are saved Too many had to suffer the scrapman. I was most annoyed about the St.Athan one which was preserved there as I never saw it

[tc2324]

Thank you for the comments, BPAG really are looking forward to moving forward with this project. I can confirm that XT597 will remain in her Raspberry Ripple Scheme.

Anyway advanced apologies for another gratuitous `please donate` post, however I think it`s worth the nagging. I`ve included a few shots taken some time ago of 360 to highlight her condition. In one of the shots you will see that with a bit of spit and elbow grease, her `grey` is still there but as you can see its going to be a huge task. We are planning to hold open days during the restoration of 360 and all the Phantoms and when everything is done, this Phantom museum for want of a better term, will be open to the public.

So for the price of a pint or cup of high street coffee, you can make a difference, donate and play your part in restoring the last remaining UK `J` in RAF colours.

Account Name – Tiger360
Sort Code – 30-96-26
Acct. Number – 53212368

[Campbell89]

Is there any chance of them getting airborne or will CAA put a stop on that?