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what lens to buy

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ghostwave525
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what lens to buy

Post by ghostwave525 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:57 pm

hello guys

i'm looking at buying a lens

i'm thinking the sigma 100-400 or the tamron 100-400 i heard the IS on the sigma is not that great but if any of you have it i would love to know what your results were. I have the canon 70-300mm L IS F4-F5.6 but i need the extra 100mm for airshows and for private jets. If there is any lenses that are similar then please let me know. I heard also that some guy had a canon 70-200 f2.8 mark 2 with a 2x teleconverter on it and then when you don't need the 400mm just take off the 2x teleconverter and you have f2.8 but its about double the price as the tamron and sigma and that's if you buy the canon 70-200mm used.So let me know what you guys think i'm planning on using this for the duxford airshow in a couple weeks so if i don't like either one i can send it back to amazon

thanks in advance

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Nighthawke
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by Nighthawke » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:09 pm

I might be wrong but I would have thought that a crop from 300mm "L" glass would be as good as the 3rd party 400mm.

If you are intent on getting one have you considered the Mk1 Canon 100-400. No idea on prices, I'll leave that to you.

I haven't looked at your photos but given the comments above are you sure you're ready for an other lens, or do you need more time to improve your technique?

Not really advice more food for thought before you invest hard-earned pennies.

ghostwave525
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by ghostwave525 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:23 pm

Nighthawke wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:09 pm
I might be wrong but I would have thought that a crop from 300mm "L" glass would be as good as the 3rd party 400mm.

If you are intent on getting one have you considered the Mk1 Canon 100-400. No idea on prices, I'll leave that to you.

I haven't looked at your photos but given the comments above are you sure you're ready for an other lens, or do you need more time to improve your technique?

Not really advice more food for thought before you invest hard-earned pennies.
i can crop but i have a canon 7d and when i crop in a lot it goes very soft i can go for a camera with 24 megapixels which would help but i like my canon 7d im not going to be getting rid off my canon 70-300mm i love it but i do need more reach

my technique well i don't really understand that question i'm just not getting in close enough the duxford air show has tones off small planes like the spitfire

the canon mark 1 i heard it is not the sharpest but if people think its good enough then ill look at it

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Nighthawke
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by Nighthawke » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:34 pm

Sorry by technique I was referring to the general advice given by others - I should probably have said set-up or settings. As I said I was referring more to things that you might need to answer before deciding. Whatever choice you make I hope it works out and you can enjoy taking more photos. Photography is often a very personal thing and every piece of kit is slightly different. The most important thing is often the person behind the camera and also the one thing with most restrictions.

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rockfordstone
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by rockfordstone » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:18 pm

i wouldn't bother with such a small step up to 400. if you are going to upgrade from a 300, i think you'd want to extend up to a 600.

cropping doesn't instantly mean your picture will be soft. that will be focus as much as anything. if you haven't got the camera set right, learnt how to pan the subject your images will be soft regardless of whether it is a 300, 400 or 600.

ghostwave525
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by ghostwave525 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:22 pm

rockfordstone wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:18 pm
i wouldn't bother with such a small step up to 400. if you are going to upgrade from a 300, i think you'd want to extend up to a 600.

cropping doesn't instantly mean your picture will be soft. that will be focus as much as anything. if you haven't got the camera set right, learnt how to pan the subject your images will be soft regardless of whether it is a 300, 400 or 600.
ok thank you ill look at buying a camera with more megapixels to help with my cropping thank you

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Mark
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by Mark » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:23 pm

I had the Canon L series 300mm F4 prime with a 1.4x convertor for a while. Some of my best Riat shots came from that set up on the 7d.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mark_holt_photography/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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rockfordstone
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by rockfordstone » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:29 pm

ghostwave525 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:22 pm
rockfordstone wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:18 pm
i wouldn't bother with such a small step up to 400. if you are going to upgrade from a 300, i think you'd want to extend up to a 600.

cropping doesn't instantly mean your picture will be soft. that will be focus as much as anything. if you haven't got the camera set right, learnt how to pan the subject your images will be soft regardless of whether it is a 300, 400 or 600.
ok thank you ill look at buying a camera with more megapixels to help with my cropping thank you
what camera do you have currently?

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rockfordstone
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by rockfordstone » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:42 pm

just seen you have a 7D.

hate to be a kill joy mate, but you have 18mp's on there. so unless you are cropping to print onto a massive print, that's more than enough for most use. the next step up will likely be 24 mp's which really isn't going to make that much difference. more megapixels does not instantly mean better images.

I've had a look at your photos and honestly i don't see a lot wrong with them. based on what you have been saying, it sounds more of a technique issue rather than gear issue. my recommendation from here would be learn camera settings and about light, learn how to pan, learn the camera.

the 7d is a perfectly capable camera and ultimately the body is only as good as the person using it. if you are dead set on spending money, invest it in a lens first because honestly, if your images are soft now, they will still be soft just with a more expensive camera.

i didn't upgrade from my D5200 until i was sure that i was gaining from the body was worth the money. I went lenses first, then and only then went to a new body.

again hate to be a kill joy, but the kit you have is perfectly good for this sort of stuff, and spending money isn't always the answer.

ghostwave525
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by ghostwave525 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:50 pm

rockfordstone wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:42 pm
just seen you have a 7D.

hate to be a kill joy mate, but you have 18mp's on there. so unless you are cropping to print onto a massive print, that's more than enough for most use. the next step up will likely be 24 mp's which really isn't going to make that much difference. more megapixels does not instantly mean better images.

I've had a look at your photos and honestly i don't see a lot wrong with them. based on what you have been saying, it sounds more of a technique issue rather than gear issue. my recommendation from here would be learn camera settings and about light, learn how to pan, learn the camera.

the 7d is a perfectly capable camera and ultimately the body is only as good as the person using it. if you are dead set on spending money, invest it in a lens first because honestly, if your images are soft now, they will still be soft just with a more expensive camera.

i didn't upgrade from my D5200 until i was sure that i was gaining from the body was worth the money. I went lenses first, then and only then went to a new body.

again hate to be a kill joy, but the kit you have is perfectly good for this sort of stuff, and spending money isn't always the answer.
yea i know it won't make much diffrence but it's not just the megapixels

i was looking at buying a 77d this had 24 megapixels 45 af points and im hoping better iso performance it's also just a newer camera which means i might have some newer features which i don't have on my 7d the only thing ill be losing is 1 frame per second which i don't think will make much diffrence

i like the results i get but if there is a camera with better performance then it might be worth it

tell me what you think i can buy a canon 77d used for about £400

ghostwave525
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by ghostwave525 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:00 pm

Mark wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:23 pm
I had the Canon L series 300mm F4 prime with a 1.4x convertor for a while. Some of my best Riat shots came from that set up on the 7d.
yea i have the 400mm f5.6 i would love to use it for airshows but i go to the duxford air shows and a lot of the planes there a prob and the 400mm doesn't have IS on it so it would be very tricky to get sharp shots

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rockfordstone
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by rockfordstone » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:01 pm

it's a good enough camera (ultimately, all cameras will do the same job), but in the aviation game i wouldn't be upgrading to a camera which has less frames per second personally.

listen, i'm not going to tell you how to spend your money, but from your photos i've seen, and the conversation you have been having with people your camera isn't your issue.

all i'm saying is that if technique is your issue and you don't change your lens, you will just drop 400 quid on a camera and have the same results. that in itself will make you feel worse about your shots than you do now

i would seriously consider, if you are going to spend money, spend it on a lens with extended range and IS. i think you will get more out of it at this stage :)

ghostwave525
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by ghostwave525 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:21 pm

rockfordstone wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:01 pm
it's a good enough camera (ultimately, all cameras will do the same job), but in the aviation game i wouldn't be upgrading to a camera which has less frames per second personally.

listen, i'm not going to tell you how to spend your money, but from your photos i've seen, and the conversation you have been having with people your camera isn't your issue.

all i'm saying is that if technique is your issue and you don't change your lens, you will just drop 400 quid on a camera and have the same results.

i would seriously consider, if you are going to spend money, spend it on a lens with extended range and IS. i think you will get more out of it at this stage :)
yea those pictures did have the wrong settings it was my mistake, if you've ever been to stansted you know there's a tree which you can climb and i go up there its brilliant it gets you a view right over the fence so panning in a tree is difficult
i have another post on here asking for settings and ill be using those in a couple days when i go back to stansted.

for camera gear i agree with buying lenses first but i have used the sigma 150-600 and it's not for me it's heavy and just not that sharp at 500 and 600mm in my opinion and i also have another post asking the same question on airlines.net and they say if i'm trying to buy a 400mm there's no point cause you could just crop the photo so for lenses i'm not sure what to buy

i'm sure my technique could be better so ill practise that, for the frame per second thing i think when shooting planes you have about 3 seconds for them to be close enough to make sense to take photos atleast with my 70-300 and with 7 frames that's 21 photos and with 6 frames its 18 photos i can with raw shoot about 23 photos before it stops so i can shoot for all 3 seconds and i think 18 photos will surely have 1 good photo in it

if you have a suggestion for a lens then please tell me if you think just hold off on everything and save my money then please tell me thanks

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rockfordstone
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by rockfordstone » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:48 pm

ghostwave525 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:21 pm
rockfordstone wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:01 pm
it's a good enough camera (ultimately, all cameras will do the same job), but in the aviation game i wouldn't be upgrading to a camera which has less frames per second personally.

listen, i'm not going to tell you how to spend your money, but from your photos i've seen, and the conversation you have been having with people your camera isn't your issue.

all i'm saying is that if technique is your issue and you don't change your lens, you will just drop 400 quid on a camera and have the same results.

i would seriously consider, if you are going to spend money, spend it on a lens with extended range and IS. i think you will get more out of it at this stage :)
yea those pictures did have the wrong settings it was my mistake, if you've ever been to stansted you know there's a tree which you can climb and i go up there its brilliant it gets you a view right over the fence so panning in a tree is difficult
i have another post on here asking for settings and ill be using those in a couple days when i go back to stansted.

for camera gear i agree with buying lenses first but i have used the sigma 150-600 and it's not for me it's heavy and just not that sharp at 500 and 600mm in my opinion and i also have another post asking the same question on airlines.net and they say if i'm trying to buy a 400mm there's no point cause you could just crop the photo so for lenses i'm not sure what to buy

i'm sure my technique could be better so ill practise that, for the frame per second thing i think when shooting planes you have about 3 seconds for them to be close enough to make sense to take photos atleast with my 70-300 and with 7 frames that's 21 photos and with 6 frames its 18 photos i can with raw shoot about 23 photos before it stops so i can shoot for all 3 seconds and i think 18 photos will surely have 1 good photo in it

if you have a suggestion for a lens then please tell me if you think just hold off on everything and save my money then please tell me thanks
so i have a tamron 150-600 and when i get it right it is pretty darn sharp at 600. honestly all telephoto lenses are a bit soft at the more extreme end (unless you are paying thousands).
based on what you have now, and you view of the 150-600 you have used, have you considered the 50-500 from sigma? may be a bit lighter.

so my honest opinion is that go to a few shows, a few different airports and play around with different lights, different angles, different planes etc. once you have done that you will know 100 per cent what you are looking to shoot, what you are lacking and what you need in new gear (if anything).

you can do a lot with the gear you have if you use it well. here is an example on a similar spec body and lens that i took.

Image

this image was also cropped as it was all out at 300, but because i got the settings right, nailed the pan it's as sharp as its going to get.

aviation really is one of those niche styles where technique trumps gear in a lot of cases. once you have practiced and reached the point where you are hitting shots you are happy with in terms of sharpness, then look at moving to something with less noise etc.

also. try to avoid pixel peeping. as photographers we will go in and look at the minute detail. the reality is, no one else will :)

ghostwave525
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:11 pm

Re: what lens to buy

Post by ghostwave525 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:03 pm

rockfordstone wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:48 pm
ghostwave525 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:21 pm
rockfordstone wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:01 pm
it's a good enough camera (ultimately, all cameras will do the same job), but in the aviation game i wouldn't be upgrading to a camera which has less frames per second personally.

listen, i'm not going to tell you how to spend your money, but from your photos i've seen, and the conversation you have been having with people your camera isn't your issue.

all i'm saying is that if technique is your issue and you don't change your lens, you will just drop 400 quid on a camera and have the same results.

i would seriously consider, if you are going to spend money, spend it on a lens with extended range and IS. i think you will get more out of it at this stage :)
yea those pictures did have the wrong settings it was my mistake, if you've ever been to stansted you know there's a tree which you can climb and i go up there its brilliant it gets you a view right over the fence so panning in a tree is difficult
i have another post on here asking for settings and ill be using those in a couple days when i go back to stansted.

for camera gear i agree with buying lenses first but i have used the sigma 150-600 and it's not for me it's heavy and just not that sharp at 500 and 600mm in my opinion and i also have another post asking the same question on airlines.net and they say if i'm trying to buy a 400mm there's no point cause you could just crop the photo so for lenses i'm not sure what to buy

i'm sure my technique could be better so ill practise that, for the frame per second thing i think when shooting planes you have about 3 seconds for them to be close enough to make sense to take photos atleast with my 70-300 and with 7 frames that's 21 photos and with 6 frames its 18 photos i can with raw shoot about 23 photos before it stops so i can shoot for all 3 seconds and i think 18 photos will surely have 1 good photo in it

if you have a suggestion for a lens then please tell me if you think just hold off on everything and save my money then please tell me thanks
so i have a tamron 150-600 and when i get it right it is pretty darn sharp at 600. honestly all telephoto lenses are a bit soft at the more extreme end (unless you are paying thousands).
based on what you have now, and you view of the 150-600 you have used, have you considered the 50-500 from sigma? may be a bit lighter.

so my honest opinion is that go to a few shows, a few different airports and play around with different lights, different angles, different planes etc. once you have done that you will know 100 per cent what you are looking to shoot, what you are lacking and what you need in new gear (if anything).

you can do a lot with the gear you have if you use it well. here is an example on a similar spec body and lens that i took.

Image

this image was also cropped as it was all out at 300, but because i got the settings right, nailed the pan it's as sharp as its going to get.

aviation really is one of those niche styles where technique trumps gear in a lot of cases. once you have practiced and reached the point where you are hitting shots you are happy with in terms of sharpness, then look at moving to something with less noise etc.

also. try to avoid pixel peeping. as photographers we will go in and look at the minute detail. the reality is, no one else will :)
looks great and ill for sure practice technique, the sigma 50-500 well they way i look at it the 150-600 is a 4x zoom and the 50-500 is a 10x zoom i really don't think it will be sharper more than likely less sharp the weight i'm sure is good

ill most likely hold off on buying a lens for now, to be honest i don't know what lens to buy, again i was thinking the 100-400 but they said it isn't worth it so i'm not sure what to buy ill probably wait until a new lens releases

the sharpness i think i'm fine with the only reason those pictures aren't the sharpest is cause i was using manual on continuous mode which i heard makes the lens hunt alot making the picture not in focus correctly i think my biggest problem with setting and all that is light, alot off the time with a white aircraft the top off the plane is difficult to see cause it plends in with the sky so im trying to figure out iso, f-stops and shutter speed correctly

and again thanks for all the info

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rockfordstone
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by rockfordstone » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:16 pm

if you are not sure what lens you want, then at this stage don't spend any money. keep saving, keep practicing then when you know what you need, you can be sure your money is well spent.

one other small point that i find helps.
with continuous focus, if your focus is linked to your shutter button then yes it will continue to hunt as you take photos.
look into back button focus. that allows you to get your focus once and then just hold the shutter down without it trying to refocus.
its fiddly to start with, but once you nail it it makes the world of difference.

i tried it and have never gone back

ghostwave525
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by ghostwave525 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:17 pm

rockfordstone wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:16 pm
if you are not sure what lens you want, then at this stage don't spend any money. keep saving, keep practicing then when you know what you need, you can be sure your money is well spent.

one other small point that i find helps.
with continuous focus, if your focus is linked to your shutter button then yes it will continue to hunt as you take photos.
look into back button focus. that allows you to get your focus once and then just hold the shutter down without it trying to refocus.
its fiddly to start with, but once you nail it it makes the world of difference.

i tried it and have never gone back
ok ill have a look at it thank you

slogen51
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Re: what lens to buy

Post by slogen51 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:30 pm

With airlines in particular I think you have to compensate ( under expose) for the white fuselage if you don't want to lose details on the fuselage such as reg and markings. I am surprised your canon is 'hunting' as you are using a top end machine. I know at Stansted taking pictures from Belmer road can be tricky if the fence gets into the frame plus you are shooting into the sun at certain times. On my Nikon D610 I can tighten the focus points so that foreground clutter ( which later will be cropped) does not interfere with focusing.

I would have thought you wanted Continuous focusing if the subject is landing or taking off.

I looked at your Stansted pictures and they look ok to me but touchdown shots are a bit awkward with the aforementioned fence. You could go around to the 22 approach end on the south side at Stansted near Takely?? Village , not far from a pub I can't remember the name of - there is scope for some nice panning shots which should be pin sharp to test your equipment on. Also as you know, Heathrow has a continuous supply of movements to practice on.

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