RAF Lossiemouth 15-16th Oct 15

[thorny1a]

Great pictures Kurt, #1 is a cracker

Very sensible points raised about the risks of shots under the approach ect, although I don't think it's fair to single out Kurt, as countless other posts on this forum have had images of jets directly ahead either on departure or finals.
It's an issue everyone should be aware of & act accordingly.

[onemac]

Outside perimeter fence safe - Inside (as I am sure Kurt was not) dangerous - end of

to the down runway Tornado shot.

What a crass and ill-informed statement. Tell that to the relatives of all those who have perished from aviation accidents outside the wire. Oh, and you just have to watch this vid of enthusiasts being 'safe' outside the fence

click here for health and safety video

or how about this one?

Al

[Bat21]

Outside perimeter fence safe - Inside (as I am sure Kurt was not) dangerous - end of

to the down runway Tornado shot.

What a crass and ill-informed statement. Tell that to the relatives of all those who have perished from aviation accidents outside the wire. Oh, and you just have to watch this vid of enthusiasts being 'safe' outside the fence

click here for health and safety video

or how about this one?

Al

Aye Sorry Onemac - I probably didn't phrase that post very well - I was trying to say if the approaches to runways were THAT dangerous they would be included in the fenced off area.

I kind of felt Kurt was being picked on a bit as a result of being at a spot that is actually on a spotters guide linked to from this site (position M?on the second link)

viewtopic.php?f=74&t=28526

[Thunder]

I was trying to say if the approaches to runways were THAT dangerous they would be included in the fenced off area.

Motorways aren't fenced in, but you wouldn't stand in the middle of one would you? As a guide standing anywhere within the Approach lighting pattern isn't advised and as you get closer to the runway thresholds the potential danger increases significantly. Kurt as has others was standing in front of the first bar approx 170 mtrs from the actual runway. I lost count how many times over the years I was sent out to the 23 and 05 ends by ATC to clear people and cars away.

Heed the advice if you want or please yourself if you think you know better, just don't expect a warm welcome from the locals or the police if you choose the latter.

[onemac]

Aye Sorry Onemac - I probably didn't phrase that post very well - I was trying to say if the approaches to runways were THAT dangerous they would be included in the fenced off area.

I kind of felt Kurt was being picked on a bit as a result of being at a spot that is actually on a spotters guide linked to from this site (position M?on the second link)

viewtopic.php?f=74&t=28526

No probs Bat21 but under and over-run areas in the main do not belong to the MOD and in this case the Golf Club are the owners. We hear that visitors are recommended to go stand there and watch the aircraft which is information we have already passed on to the RAF police when we had our pre JW15-2 enthusiasts meeting with them and Police Scotland. The base are getting VERY touchy about enthusiasts standing there and even object to us standing on the bunker. ATC even sent the RAF Police out to move the cars and people from the usual parking area at 23 a week past Thursday and just yesterday two of the locals were asked not to lean on the wooden fence (by the bunker crash gate) "in case it was damaged any further"

I agree that Kurt appears to have been targeted in this instance and, whilst there appear to be no up-to-date spotters guides, I would advise photographers not to publish shots if they do take them from similar positions. And please remember that security forces amongst a host of others have access to Fighter Control and other forums as guests.

Al

[onemac]

I'm not a camera buff in any way.... but surely these days these kinds of shots can be done remotely?

You still need to get the camera to the location but I agree, your suggestion would be less risky - if you knew the all aircraft movements on the particular day.

AL

[Mike]

My apologies for giving Kurt a hard time - however, I am not singling him out as had been said in a previous post.

I have commented on the dangers of this sort of photography in numerous threads in the past on FC (and usually got shot down in flames !), just keep clear of the extended centre-line of the runway (that means both ends of the active runway) and you should be safe.

One thing that I have noticed is that the youngsters seem to post the offending shots, the geriatric brigade just don't do it - maybe that's because we all have past experiences (or reading crash investigation reports).

I have been looking at Kurt's shots for the last 3, or 4 years - he is getting better and better and better.

Keep it up, Kurt.

[Thunder]

Yes it is a nice pic but one that could ultimately spoil it for everyone else. How many people seeing that picture will be tempted to try it for themselves if they visit Lossie. The local spotters on here have been saying for ages now that ATC, RAF Police and Police Scotland have been responding to increased reports of people standing in the undershoot/overshoot areas, do you honestly think they would waste their time if there wasn't a risk. We enjoy good relations with the RAF up here at what is probably the best station for photography/spotting so please listen to what the locals are telling you and don't ruin it for everyone. I've personally seen what can happen in the undershoot/overshoot areas from drop tanks falling off , a/c panels falling, a/c undercarriage taking the fence out, jet efflux taking the fence out, A/c overrunning the runway into the fence and a full on a/c crash in the undershoot, but hey you're probably right it isn't dangerous...............