Apache AH1 vs AH-64E, 3rd June 2021.

[tommc]

Here is an Apache AH1 airborne above an AH-64E at Wattisham earlier this year. Horribly backlit as per normal here at that time of day and year.

tom0139 apache and ah64e by Tom McGhee, on Flickr

[johnwickenden]

So, a question - and apologies if I am being dense or am behind the eight ball here......

Are these ZM serialised Apaches new build machines or are they the old Ah64D models that have been recycled upgraded and given new serials (like the Nimrod MR4s would have been)?

[Mike]

The AH-64Es with the ZM serials are new-builds with some parts taken from the old AH1s that have been reduced to produce in the US.

[tommc]

Are these ZM serialised Apaches new build machines or are they the old Ah64D models that have been recycled upgraded and given new serials (like the Nimrod MR4s would have been)?

ALL AAC Apaches are new builds, whether ZJ or ZM serialled.

[Jackaboi.1]

How many D models are set to be refurbished?

[tommc]

How many D models are set to be refurbished?

None.

There are 50 BRAND NEW AH-64Es which will have some of the high value systems fitted to them taken from the old Apache AH1s.

[Jackaboi.1]

How many D models are set to be refurbished?

None.

There are 50 BRAND NEW AH-64Es which will have some of the high value systems fitted to them taken from the old Apache AH1s.

Ah ok, I read this before

“In May 2017, the United Kingdom placed a $488.1-million Foreign Military Sales (FMS) order with Boeing, a modification of an existing deal, to remanufacture 38 Apache AH1s to AH-64E standard as part of a wider Lot 7-11 production run”

I also remember the 3 reg social media manager saying certain gear gets stripped out and then off to the USA.

Just wondered, Cheers though!

[tommc]

The USArmy Apache REMANF process has 2 different "modes", which produce the same outcome for the customer.

1. Take an existing good condition AH-64D frame, and put it on the Mesa line for assembly as a AH-64E Guardian.

2. Take a brand new factory fresh AH-64E frame and put it on the Mesa line for assembly as a AH-64E Guardian.

The decision on whether an existing AH-64D is good enough to be used depends upon numerous factors, and this is why some USArmy AH-64Es are conversions from AH-64Ds (and probably even AH-64As prior to this), and some USArmy AH-64Es are new builds.

The USArmy still gets what is effectively zero houred AH-64E Guardians either way.

As far as the AAC Apache AH1s go, these are NOT standard USArmy AH-64Ds. They have different, and at the time much more powerful engines, with the consequent different stresses on the airframe. It is hardly surprising that Boeing were unwilling to use and certify these frames in the REMANF process.

So, the really advanced and expensive internal avionics and defensive aids and RADAR etc that AAC Apache AH1s have, has been removed from the old aircraft and fitted to the new AAC AH-64Es.

It is probably politically expedient to call these "refurbished", in much the same way that Danish and German Lynxes were "upgraded", rather than being newly built (which is what they in fact were).