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POLL - NATO and Defence Policy

A place to chat and discuss everything and anything thats NOT Military Aviation related. No Civilian Aviation content please. We would be grateful for such inclusions on our sister site - Civilian Aviation.

NATO and Article 5 - member's obligations.

NATO members must assist each other militarily regardless of financial contributions
28
32%
NATO members must be 2% GDP compliant before expecting full military assistance from others
52
59%
NATO can manage without the American military and financial muscle
8
9%
 
Total votes: 88

Tally-ho
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:12 am
Location: Nottinghamshire

Re: POLL - NATO and Defence Policy

Post by Tally-ho » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:20 pm

The first US Presidential debate has come and gone.

Both candidates spoke briefly on NATO and how they see US interaction / participation as regards America's role within it. Trump again mentioned Germany - amongst other countries - as not fully contributing to the needs of defence and relying too much on US muscle in policing hotspots. I had the distinct impression that the conversation regarding NATO members and their share of percentage payment for (NATO) defence, is a conversation that will certainly be had if he wins.

And so he should, Germany has no excuse for not paying 2% into its own defence, expecting others to fight, bleed and die on their behalf. And they are not the only culprits ....

YellowBelly
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 8:16 pm

Re: POLL - NATO and Defence Policy

Post by YellowBelly » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:32 am

hedgerowops wrote:None they all live in the UK
thats a ridiculous thing to say and I would suggest that u delete that post

YellowBelly
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 8:16 pm

Re: POLL - NATO and Defence Policy

Post by YellowBelly » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:42 am

nickowen wrote:The government of the Untied Kingdom is indeed spending its 2%. But is it spending it wisely?

it hasnt up to now, it has promised to do so for the next ten years, but we will see about that.

this year will likely see us hit the target as we decided to buy the P-8, a much needed platform that has been seriously lacking since the Nimrod ceased flying with the role being fulfilled by our NATO partners, some of whom arent at the 2% level of spending. ;)

wisely huh? is investing in the next generation trident submarine before its fully committed, being dealt with wisely? french steel and US controlled weapon system, wisely? not so sure, is there any real need for it, considering as others have mentioned, people are relying on foodbanks, children starving in the 5th biggest economy in the world, strange times indeed.

Tally-ho
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:12 am
Location: Nottinghamshire

Re: POLL - NATO and Defence Policy

Post by Tally-ho » Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:23 am

We have a small lead showing a majority of participants supporting the notion that NATO members should fully provide for and invest the required 2% of GDP, into their armed forces. There are also a small percentage of members here who think NATO can survive without the military might of the USA.

The on-going talk in the EU about the creation of an EU army will of course further drain the military budgets of NATO members, if that farcical idea ever came to fruition. Some of the loudest shouters wanting an EU army are the biggest culprits for not investing the 2%, so where will the financial discipline and moral courage come from to fund an EU army? Thankfully and sensibly the UK has continuously opposed the idea of an EU army, for many and obvious reasons.

Thank you to all for your votes and participation.

Tally-ho
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:12 am
Location: Nottinghamshire

Re: POLL - NATO and Defence Policy

Post by Tally-ho » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:37 am

Donald Trump was interviewed by Michael Gove from The Times. The BBC has this report full of 'home truths' this morning:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38631832
On NATO
Mr Trump argued that he had said a long time ago that Nato had problems. One; that it was obsolete because it was designed many many years ago, and number two; that the countries weren't paying what they're supposed to pay. Last November, Downing Street said Prime Minister Theresa May and Mr Trump discussed the need for more countries to commit to spending 2% of national income on defence, when they spoke on the telephone after the US election..
Mr Trump will be sworn in as US President this Friday (20 Jan) and has been setting out his visions for many weeks now - and NATO is featuring prominently.

Tally-ho
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:12 am
Location: Nottinghamshire

Re: POLL - NATO and Defence Policy

Post by Tally-ho » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:01 pm

The new US Defence Secretary Jim Mattis visited NATO headquarters today (Wed 15 Feb);

Below follows a short extract, the full article can be read here - http://www.nbcnews.com/news/europe/matt ... se-n721291
Defense Secretary James Mattis delivered a tough ultimatum to NATO on Wednesday:

Kick in more cash for defense by the end of the year or the Trump administration will "moderate its commitment". "No longer can the American taxpayer carry a disproportionate share of the defense of Western values," Mattis said during a closed door meeting with the alliance's 27 other defense ministers. "Americans cannot care more for your children's future security than you do".
Those countries shirking their responsibilities have been forewarned.

Tally-ho
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:12 am
Location: Nottinghamshire

Re: POLL - NATO and Defence Policy

Post by Tally-ho » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:29 pm

The pressure is ever increasing on those NATO members who are not paying and investing for defence. Brexit negotiations are starting soon and the word 'Security' was used in the Prime Minister's address to Parliament upon triggering Article 50 and Britain's exit from the failing EU. The UK and the USA are major players in NATO, it is time for EU members that are also NATO members to wake up and hear the message.

Fallon (UK) and Mattis (USA) discussing Nato spending - 31 March 2017:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39453527
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/michael ... us-not-eu/

We have 74 votes on the Poll thus far, 8 think NATO can survive without the USA. Really?

Have you voted?

Tally-ho
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:12 am
Location: Nottinghamshire

Re: POLL - NATO and Defence Policy

Post by Tally-ho » Sun May 28, 2017 7:31 am

As you know US President Trump visited NATO HQ in Brussels recently and gave a short 12 minute speech. Watch him telling the other heads of governments to start paying their fair share towards the defence of Europe - watch from 3.30 minutes onwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPjC4gdckXY

Tally-ho
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:12 am
Location: Nottinghamshire

Re: POLL - NATO and Defence Policy

Post by Tally-ho » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:43 am

Yet again, the warnings from President Trump is clear and NATO members who are under-funding the financial needs of the Alliance, have been named and shamed. The years of free-loading and riding on the backs of others are over, it is time for the European members to pay their share for their defence needs.

"The president's Oval Office comments came the same day it was revealed that Trump had slammed "underspending" NATO allies, including Germany, Norway, and Canada, in harshly worded letters issued last month".
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07 ... thing.html

And let's be clear, without the USA and the UK military and financial muscle the NATO Alliance will collapse.

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