B52's to take on ISIS

[09andrew]

Would it be feasible to use Fairford?? Is this why they've been busy working on airfield infrastructure?

http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pa ... e-AOR.aspx

[sonicbenj]

They'll be going down to Al Udeid if they're replacing the B-1s I'm guessing?

[page_verify]

I doubt the Buff can do combat missions out of Al Udeid so they'll probably used Diego Garcia.

[09andrew]

I doubt the Buff can do combat missions out of Al Udeid so they'll probably used Diego Garcia.

The distance from Fairford to Damascus is approx 2300 miles compared to Diego Garcia to Damascus being approx 3600 miles....

[MarkS]

There are 3 currently operating out of Moron in southern Spain for exercise Cold Response. So I guess a possible contender for further operations.

[page_verify]

I doubt the Buff can do combat missions out of Al Udeid so they'll probably used Diego Garcia.

The distance from Fairford to Damascus is approx 2300 miles compared to Diego Garcia to Damascus being approx 3600 miles....

Extra 2,000 miles for a Buff is nothing compared to the $m's needed to support combat B-52 operations out of Fairford.

[colt99]

Surely Fairford being used would be bad news for RIAT, I remember back in 1999 when Kosovo was a target there was a possibility of RIAT not happening because the bombers were based there, luckily the airstrikes ended early enough for the airshow to go ahead.

[stealth1234]

Why is this a Topic ?

[colt99]

Why is this a Topic ?

Because different people have different levels of knowledge.
To some there could have been a chance that the aircraft may come to Fairford.

[mushbuster]

I doubt the Buff can do combat missions out of Al Udeid so they'll probably used Diego Garcia.

The distance from Fairford to Damascus is approx 2300 miles compared to Diego Garcia to Damascus being approx 3600 miles....

Extra 2,000 miles for a Buff is nothing compared to the $m's needed to support combat B-52 operations out of Fairford.

Page Verify, the economics would suggest otherwise. At $70,000+ per flight hour for a b52, $170,000+ per flight hour for a b-2 or $60,000+ per flight hour for a b-1, plus an extra refuel or two meaning more KC135s required. The extra minimum 5 hours flight time makes a closer operating location a much more effective proposition economically and militarily, particularly for long duration operations over extended periods of time or for missions that require the aircraft to loiter on a CAS type sortie. Less than a month of sorties before it becomes more economic is my guess assuming the Fairford costs do not have to include much airfield or support facility work - it is supposed to be used for exactly this kind of operation after all. If you add in 1 or 2 refuels per sortie and the costs of those refuelling aircraft to be forward operated at $40,000+ per flight hour that time reduces even further. If you then look at the increased availability of airframes or lower utilization rate which means less airframes and less personnel to sustain flight or sortie demand. The same kind of economics are widely used in the civil airline industry to get maximum utilization of aircraft with the minimum overhead. Isis are not only in Syria and Iraq, they have affiliates in places like Libya. Finally there is the political situation with Russia and the NATO missions in the Baltics and Eastern Europe. There are plenty of reasons why Fairford could be used for this sort of operation, I would not dismiss it as a possibility so easily.

[page_verify]

Mushbuster, you know that when the B-52s operated out of Fairford in 2003 it required the largest policing operation since the miners strikes that involved 48 out of 52 police forces? That should put into perspective the scale of requirement that's needed for armed Buffs to fly out of Fairford. By the way, the B-52 is operating out of another base in Europe right now - that's nearer to Syria.

[andrewn]

very true page_verify. I was there one Sunny sunday afternoon chatting with the "local" police who happened to have been bussed in from somewhere up North (near to me if I recall!). They were loving it, nice quiet job, double time for w/ends

[mushbuster]

Mushbuster, you know that when the B-52s operated out of Fairford in 2003 it required the largest policing operation since the miners strikes that involved 48 out of 52 police forces? That should put into perspective the scale of requirement that's needed for armed Buffs to fly out of Fairford. By the way, the B-52 is operating out of another base in Europe right now - that's nearer to Syria.

Page Verify, I remember it well, probably better than you as the security was operating right outside my front door, just as it did in 91, 98 and 99 and to a much lesser degree in 86, we even supplied them refreshments. What was stated at the time was that all the civil policing outside of the base for any visiting forces was funded by the British taxpayer, so I am not sure this would be a factor in any economic decision by USAF to use the base. I was aware of the b52s operating out of Moron as that has been publically announced.

[AlanM]

A friend sent me this taken today over Heathrow.......

https://www.flickr.com/photos/neil_lomax/25383913981/

Cheers

Alan

[rva65]

Why would you think Moron is nearer Syria than Fairford, because it's not, by far!

[StormsInAfrica]

I can't imagine objections to bombing ISIS on a scale comparable with 2003.

[POL]

Why would you think Moron is nearer Syria than Fairford, because it's not, by far!

Moron (LEMO) - Damascus (OSDI) is 2083nm
Fairford (EGVA) - Damascus (OSDI) is 1988nm

Less than 100nm isn't "far" by any stretch of the imagination. However, there's no way on earth that they'll be able to take a near great-circle route from Fairford, which means having to head either south through France, or south west over the Atlantic, and then west. The best case scenario is about 2381nm. From Moron, they could quite easily take a near great-circle route, and avoid a heck of a lot more diplomatic issues.

[Tom.Joyce]

Moron (LEMO) - Damascus (OSDI) is 2083nm
Fairford (EGVA) - Damascus (OSDI) is 1988nm

This site really helps explain what you are saying http://www.greatcirclemapper.net/ - Saved me asking a really stupid question !

[graham luxton]

Why would you think Moron is nearer Syria than Fairford, because it's not, by far!

Moron (LEMO) - Damascus (OSDI) is 2083nm
Fairford (EGVA) - Damascus (OSDI) is 1988nm

Less than 100nm isn't "far" by any stretch of the imagination. However, there's no way on earth that they'll be able to take a near great-circle route from Fairford, which means having to head either south through France, or south west over the Atlantic, and then west. The best case scenario is about 2381nm. From Moron, they could quite easily take a near great-circle route, and avoid a heck of a lot more diplomatic issues.

..... some Gulf War 2 missions routed via Navpi. Time to get calculating again Chris?

While any of the long range options are possible there may be more cost effective solutions such as upgrading facilities they already have to take B-52's. Another option is to use a base far closer to the combat area than already discussed. I'm not going to name it but B-52's have previously exercised a base in that region although it wasn't used by them in either of the Gulf Wars.

Hope I'm wrong but I doubt if we'll see them at Fairford.

[POL]

EGVA-NAVPI-OSDI is 2026nm, it all depends on what airspace needs to be avoided enroute really!