Boscombe Down

[Tps13]

PcH11G arrived at 1302 today

[Amp]

What is it please ?

[Tps13]

Pc21

[tommc]

Civvy

[EF-111]

Delivery flight. Ref:- viewtopic.php?f=41&t=168570

Steve

[POL]

Civvy

Allowed under the forum rules though

[Nighthawke]

Since a fair chunk of the UK military is civilian registered, where does that leave the "mil-only" brigade? If it carries a roundel, Royal Air Force titling but G-xxxx, do you ignore it?

[rh226]

Don't think the QinetiQ new G-ETPx registrations carry the roundel or Royal Air Force titling.

QinetiQ is a totally civil company quoted on the Stock Exchange (FTSE 250). It was part of DERA, but was privatised in 2001. Therefore the aircraft are purely civvy.

So, under forum rules, not allowed.

[tommc]

Since a fair chunk of the UK military is civilian registered, where does that leave the "mil-only" brigade? If it carries a roundel, Royal Air Force titling but G-xxxx, do you ignore it?

From https://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/defau ... 200107.pdf

Definition of State Aircraft
The eleventh session of the Provisional Council, composed of civil and military
representatives, endorsed the principles used to identify State Aircraft for ATM purposes.
Decision of the Provisional Council session 11 on 12/07/01
"The Civil-Military Interface Standing Committee (CMIC) identified the need to clarify
what would be considered as State Aircraft within the context of European Air Traffic
Management, particularly in relation to exemption policies and special procedures. In
formulating the principles, careful consideration was given not to interfere with the
general provisions of the Chicago Convention, article 3b, and to fully preserve the
sovereignty of every State to define what State Aircraft are within their national borders.
The sole purpose of the principles are to give clear guidance to the Air Navigation
Service Providers on what constitutes State Aircraft in the European ATM environment."
The principles have been formulated as follows:
Principle 1
For ATM purposes and with reference to article 3(b) of the Chicago Convention, only
aircraft used in military, customs and police services shall qualify as State Aircraft.
Accordingly:
Aircraft on a military register, or identified as such within a civil register, shall be
considered to be used in military service and hence qualify as State Aircraft;
Civil registered aircraft used in military, customs and police service shall qualify as State
Aircraft;
Civil registered aircraft used by a State for other than military, customs and police service
shall not qualify as State Aircraft.

[POL]

So, under forum rules, not allowed.

Operating from a UK military establishment, more often than not on a military contract (UK or otherwise), would be enough for me I'd say.

Although are we really considering saying we're not going to talk about QinetiQ aircraft on here any more?

[bizfreeq]

Don't think the QinetiQ new G-ETPx registrations carry the roundel or Royal Air Force titling.

QinetiQ is a totally civil company quoted on the Stock Exchange (FTSE 250). It was part of DERA, but was privatised in 2001. Therefore the aircraft are purely civvy.

So, under forum rules, not allowed.

In that case we shouldn't have any reports of FR Falcons on here either Bob but no one complains about them. No RAF roundels or titling! They are however both military contracted organisations so within the rules surely? Coastguard helos are also allowed on here but have no military connection whatsoever apart from a few ex mil pilots, not even a Government operated aircraft either!

[tommc]

Since a fair chunk of the UK military is civilian registered, where does that leave the "mil-only" brigade? If it carries a roundel, Royal Air Force titling but G-xxxx, do you ignore it?

QinetiQ G-DASH CIVVY
Tutors CIVVY
UK Coast Guard CIVVY
FRA CIVVY (except the ex Canadian AF ones)
UK Police CIVVY
Queens Flight S76 CIVVY
Securite Civile CIVVY (except the Trackers)
NASA CIVVY (except ex-mil ones)
.........etc

[Nighthawke]

Yes - a list with which I am familiar but has little or nothing to do with my question.

[tommc]

Yes - a list with which I am familiar but has little or nothing to do with my question.

Your original question is too vague. Precisely which aircraft are you talking about that "carries a roundel, Royal Air Force titling but G-xxxx"?

[Nighthawke]

"Generally speaking" then - mil scheme, mil operated but carries a civilian registration. Just curious as to where the military-only enthusiasts/spotters draw the line. Each to their own of course but the anti-civilian sometimes seems one of extreme distaste.

[tommc]

"Generally speaking" then - mil scheme, mil operated but carries a civilian registration. Just curious as to where the military-only enthusiasts/spotters draw the line. Each to their own of course but the anti-civilian sometimes seems one of extreme distaste.

I wouldn't describe it as "anti-civilian" necessarily. For me, I only have a finite amount of brain capacity, and there is obviously only a finite amount of time, so that is where I personally chose to draw the line.