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Flying Legends 2016

Post information relating to any Duxford show here.
darkman
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by darkman » Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:45 am

Blackcat1 wrote:Got the warbirds on the Saturday at Duxford and then Fairford on the Sunday! Fingers crossed for good weather !!
Same plans as myself. :thumb:
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darkman
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by darkman » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:21 pm

Classic formation added
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darkman
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by darkman » Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:51 pm

New participating aircraft added to the Flying Legends Airshow 2016, Douglas Dakota & x 3 Supermarine Spitfire Mk I's.
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jem60
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by jem60 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:05 pm

I was talking to one of Duxford's display pilots yesterday, and he intimated that if people were spectators were seen to be not where they were supposed to be, then the display may well be halted until they have moved/been moved, [think naughty field!]
Certainly this was under discussion by the relevant people, and the same thing was being debated about people outside of Old Warden. For information, the pilot was Stu Goldspink, who knows a thing or two about Display Flying.

filmman
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by filmman » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:14 pm

Remember the Shoreham crash was on a major road. Moving twenty people from the "Naughty Field" mound at the west end of Duxford next to the parked fire truck and a row of park visiting aircraft is illogical. I assume that displays will not be flown over the fire truck area. The real problem is the M11 which is overflown very low by landing and display aircraft; it's very high risk (remember Kegworth and the BA777 Heathrow crashes amongst others). If there is a M11 crash the CAA and Duxford will be savaged by the media who will consider the naughty field clearance excuse as a sick joke.

So the real question is will landings and displays avoid the M11 and if not, why not?

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Pen Pusher
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by Pen Pusher » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:16 am

Twenty people on the mound. I take it you can't count.

Restrictions were in place at the September show last year about flying over the M11/A505 and approved by the CAA/County Council/Police so not a problem there.

I've also noticed that the Primary School in Duxford Village is not advertising Air Show BBQ/parking in their on-line diary for air show weekends. :whistle:

I believe one of the reasons why tickets are not available for the September show yet is to see if the man from the CAA say's YES about how the new regulations are enforced for the May show, and the display will be stopped if so called 'enthusiasts' south side encroach on the new display datum. If the man from the CAA say's NO then Legends will be the last air show at Duxford.

Brian

jem60
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by jem60 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:25 pm

If I remember correctly from last year,landing and departing over the M11 and A.505 isn't a problem. Doing aerobatics over them is NOT allowed. Whilst traffic moves on the M11, then displaying will continue, but if there is a period of stationary traffic [as there was last year, as a result of a fatal accident,] then the display will be curtailed/'altered to avoid overflying, tho' this is not possible if aircraft have to recover, I guess.
It may be worth pointing out that on the M11,there have almost certainly been more injury/fatal accidents within the two miles either side of, and including Duxford, than there ever have been as a result of airshows there!!

darkman
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by darkman » Tue May 03, 2016 12:24 pm

Posted on Facebook
New participating aircraft added to the Flying Legends Airshow 2016,
Supermarine Spitfire Mk XVIII (Low Back), Hispano HA-112 MIL (Buchon) & Bücker Jungmann CASA 1-131-E3B.
.
The #FlyingLegends Airshow at #IWMDuxford 9th & 10th July 2016.
Advance tickets purchase only.
https://www.flyinglegends.com/aircraft.html
https://www.flyinglegends.com/tickets.html
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filmman
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by filmman » Tue May 03, 2016 11:16 pm

I agree there have been more crashes and deaths on the M11than there has been in the naughty field. Your missing the point, the me109 and the Bristol Blenheim crashed on approach short of Duxford and a few aircraft have crashed on its runway. Every landing over the M11 carries a risk of crashing into it, it's inevitable that one will eventually do so on show day. It's the CAA job to assess the risk and make a decision. Naughty field "politics" is a nuisance for them, if they insist it's cleared but allow flying/landing over the M11 and there is a crash into it they will be blamed. By the way I have seen several cars stopping for some time on the M11 under the landing path to watch the display.

jem60
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by jem60 » Sat May 07, 2016 5:09 pm

No, Filmman. I am not missing the point.Aircraft landing and taking off are not taking part in a flying display. That surely starts after they have taken off, climbed to height etc., Taking off and landing is a perfectly normal airfield operation, that occurs at virtually every airfield, every day, frequently over occupied roads, and is not part of the display. What you imply is that there must be no operations that involve ANY aircraft taking off and landing over the M.11. Obviously is a very simplistic reply, and this is not what you intend, but you must see the point of view. There is just as much likelihood of the B.17 ending up on the motorway on a pre-season test flight as there is of it having a problem on the approach. This would apply with ANY aircraft whether or not it was connected to a display. The only way to operate this airfield safely would be to close it down? I suggest this is not going to happen. Yes, there have certainly been some problems over the years, but not with display aircraft involving motorway traffic, bar the tragic P.38 crash. The ME109 didn't land short on the approach, incidentally, but was well airborne over the motorway, overshooting by some margin.
The naughty field is a completely different can of worms. If people stand where they shouldn't the choice for pilots in trouble late on approach or other problems is limited by the proximity of those people. I shouldn't need to remind people [yet again] of the unfortunate death of John Sargent in his Spitfire who was faced with EXACTLY this problem, and died rather than put the aircraft down amongst people who shouldn't have been standing there. If an aircraft crashes on it's approach after it's displayed, that is not part of the display, and Duxford would not be blamed for it in my opinion.

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BMrider
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by BMrider » Sat May 07, 2016 5:26 pm

Touch and goes do form part of aircraft displays, I have seen plenty at many airshows so landing and taking of is part of the display routine, whether or not any are performed at the upcoming Duxford event is irrelevant, the possibility of future displays should accommodate it

There's more scaremongering going on here than that about the EU exit! :roll:
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filmman
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by filmman » Mon May 16, 2016 10:57 pm

The trouble with "in my opinion" is that if such a crash happened the majority of the media would possibly not agree with you disassociating a landing from the display. If the CAA take your line they might find it difficult to continue it after such a crash. Anyway it will be interesting to see what rules are applied to Duxford, with a motorway under the threshold and a nearby village, it sets a standard for other shows. Thought will the Red Arrows start their display at RIAT by flying directly over the FRIAT stand; formation flying is risky - Mig 29s at RIAT, Meteor and Vampire at Mildenhall, Italian display team at Spangdalem, etc. It will be very illogically annoying if the display line is moved even further away for safety whilst they still fly over the stand. Anyway I hope every one has an enjoyable and say display year.

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Nighthawke
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by Nighthawke » Mon May 16, 2016 11:18 pm

The Frecce Tricolori tragedy was at Ramstein, not Spangdahlem.

When the rules changed after that dreadful incident, I never have understood why the Red Arrows are/were still allowed to enter the display from crowd rear.

filmman
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by filmman » Tue May 17, 2016 8:53 am

Sorry for the wrong venue, but we both agree about the Red Arrows. Formation aerobatics are riskier and some obvious safety restrictions should be introduced; but the problem still remains of where the display line is, what's under it and if it's outside an airfield does the landowner have rights. Or does the landowner, against his will, have responsibilities/liabilities forced upon him. Do farmers have to clear livestock and in the case of RIAT one farmers campsite continues to profit whilst the one across the airfield has apparently been closed, was that farmer compensated. In other words can displays organisers restrict others and if so do they have to offer compensation. What about Duxford making a donation to St Johns school in Duxford, in recompense for the nuisance caused to the local community?

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bizfreeq
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by bizfreeq » Tue May 17, 2016 9:46 am

The Red Arrows aren't performing formation aerobatics over the crowd or even near them. The entrance is in formation yes but straight and level flight and therefore in no way comparable to the tragedy at Ramstein which occured during a maneuver between opposing aircraft at high speed.
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filmman
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by filmman » Tue May 17, 2016 9:59 pm

Unfortunately, to err is human. Numerous collisions have happened with 2 aircraft flying in the same general direction but one pilot losing spatial awareness of the other or having problems. Flying 9 plane formations even straight and level is demanding but made to look simple because of the high standard of piloting. But things do go wrong. So someone has to decide, in the circumstances of the time, what is acceptable. Though I leave that to the experts I do reserve the right to ask questions, particularly when I am underneath.

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Pen Pusher
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by Pen Pusher » Wed May 18, 2016 5:35 am

The Red Arrows flew in from crowd rear at Old Warden the other weekend and they were spread out over 900ft so not flying close together, wing tip to wing tip, so risk averted.

Brian

darkman
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by darkman » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:36 am

Uodate
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Gary
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by Gary » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:46 pm

Its finally been confirmed no viewing on the tank bank this year
Important announcement from The Fighter Collection.

This year, air shows around the UK including the Flying Legends Air Show, have been subject to additional regulations regarding flying display permissions.

To enhance your visitor experience at this year’s Flying Legends Air Show, run by The Fighter Collection, we will be moving the crowdline forward in the central area of the museum site.

To achieve this increased capacity in the central viewing area, we have had to make some difficult decisions, which has ultimately led to the Land Warfare end of the site not being a permitted viewing area from Wednesday 6 July onwards and for the entire weekend of the Flying Legends Air Show.

There will be a small amount of sterile car parking which will be clearly designated. For safety reasons, visitors won't be able to return to their cars in this area until after the flying display has concluded. Please assist us by complying with instructions from staff at the air show.

We hope that you’ll understand the reasons behind these changes and we trust you will have an enjoyable Flying Legends Air Show.

Maps of the public layout will be posted soon.
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rdchawk
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Post by rdchawk » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:21 am

All Duxford's doing as no mention of CAA regs in that press release. But it sounds like their plan is to move the flying display line away from the naughty field.

Just means that you will be all crammed in the middle shooting into the sun all day!
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