Did you know that registration to Fighter Control is completely free and brings you lots of added features? Find out more....

Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Post information relating to the Royal International Air Tattoo here.

Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby ChrisCwmbran » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:10 pm

Hey all

Took my mother who is her 70s to departures day. We headed initially to Park & View West but found it to be closed. Accordingly we headed for Park & View East.

Once we got into the site we however found that it was impossible to get anywhere near the fence to take pictures.

Not everyone is to blame but there were countless people there who had established themselves "base camps" at the fence line using deck chairs, cool boxes and rucksacks etc. On the face of it this might seem fine however it results in for example two people occupying 8 feet of fence line - a space which is very much at a premium.

Personally I think it would be sensible if there were rules on site that the 20 feet nearest the fence should be zone where people cannot establish such bases. Then more people might actually be able to get some photos - I got 3 photos before I have up because of peoples attitudes.

Talking to a senior member of RIAT staff, I was told I was far from the first person to be unhappy about this, and he urged anyone with similar sentiments to write to the charity to see if improvements can be made next year.

Additionally however he told me that the arrival and departure days make a loss for the charity. He said the money raised from admission doesn't anywhere near cover the cost of allowing people on site on these days and that they only do it because of concerns over the safety of people attempting to watch said arrivals and departures from roadside/off-base locations. Accordingly those of us who look at RIAT attendance as a way of supporting a very importance charity, but who also attend the arrival and departure days might wish to add some money in the form of a donation (remembering to take advantage of Gift Aid) in order to offset this loss and make sure the charity and its beneficiaries really benefit as we intend.

Thanks for reading this,

Chris.
ChrisCwmbran
 

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby sabrejet » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:37 pm

ChrisCwmbran wrote:Talking to a senior member of RIAT staff... he told me that the arrival and departure days make a loss for the charity. He said the money raised from admission doesn't anywhere near cover the cost of allowing people on site on these days and that they only do it because of concerns over the safety of people attempting to watch said arrivals and departures from roadside/off-base locations.


£15 or £20 a head x many 100 persons, plus revenue from the catering/book/camera stands in P&V and they make a loss? I'd have to call bulldoody on that one. If they make a loss when presented with such an obvious cash cow then someone should be fired.
User avatar
sabrejet
 

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby ChrisCwmbran » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:59 pm

sabrejet wrote:
ChrisCwmbran wrote:Talking to a senior member of RIAT staff... he told me that the arrival and departure days make a loss for the charity. He said the money raised from admission doesn't anywhere near cover the cost of allowing people on site on these days and that they only do it because of concerns over the safety of people attempting to watch said arrivals and departures from roadside/off-base locations.


£15 or £20 a head x many 100 persons, plus revenue from the catering/book/camera stands in P&V and they make a loss? I'd have to call bulldoody on that one. If they make a loss when presented with such an obvious cash cow then someone should be fired.


He did intonate that if we were to write to the Charity querying this that they would confirm it.
ChrisCwmbran
 

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby powerslave » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:30 pm

That's why I can't be bothered with departure day anymore.
Too much hassle,and too many selfish people at the fence line.
Find it pretty hard not to get annoyed with them,and don't want to get into any do's with them.

Ian
powerslave
 
Location: Preston,Lancs.

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby sneezy24 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:39 pm

P&V West was open all day (certainly from 8:5 onward), I was there all day.
Canon EOS 550D
Canon EOS 80D
Canon 18-55mm
Canon 55-250mm
Canon 18-135 USM
Canon 50mm 1.8
Panasonic Lumix TZ70
User avatar
sneezy24
 

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby slogen51 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:56 pm

We had a great day in park and view west.

Fairly relaxed and no jostling. When the planes are airborne you don't need to be pressed against the fence and I stepped back quite a few times to get more panning room and my space at the fence for the taxying aircraft was still available.

No complaints at all.

Surprising that the charity make a loss - perhaps it's a paper loss (by allocation of fixed show costs from the weekend for example) as a lot of cash must be generated on the day to cover the variable costs?
slogen51
 
Location: Surrey and Norfolk

Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby StevenR » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:58 pm

Despite what has been said, if you are polite and ask to 'take a space' you can still get to to the front to take pictures. I together with two others were today in the East P&V effectively three rows back from the 'fence' but with a few please and thank yous managed to get some excellent shots of aircraft we needed to photo from the front row.. if people all take the ' bull in a china shop' attitude then this is where we go wrong! Ok, I admit some people won't move but their day will come when they are not at the front for whatever reason. This hobby of ours is about give and take, not self, self, self.... unless after 50+ years i have got it wrong!
User avatar
StevenR
 

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby Richard E » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:28 pm

I must admit I've always assumed that the departures day was a greatly underused resource that RIAT could make more use of and I'm surprised to hear they see a loss on the day.

Back in the day it was one of the highlights of my trip to Fairford but for the last few years I haven't bothered getting ticket for Monday when I realised that I was also becoming increasingly frustrated with the "fence line" residents who would often refuse to move from their base camp even for a minute to let anyone else get an unobscured photograph from their spot. Whilst there is a counter argument that to get a place at the front of the fence you simply need to get to the gate at early enough o'clock in the morning the fence line probably isn't long enough to afford everyone an uninterrupted view.

Unfortunately I'm not sure what the right answer is to resolve this situation.
Richard E
 

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby Nighthawke » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:49 pm

Richard - there is only one answer and that is for people to be more considerate and less selfish. Not just airshows but any other public event. It always has been and always will be that way - just human nature unfortunately. I'm sure there are no members like that on this forum as they all come across as nice people :halo:
User avatar
Nighthawke
 

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby Richard E » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:02 pm

Nighthawke wrote:Richard - there is only one answer and that is for people to be more considerate and less selfish. Not just airshows but any other public event. It always has been and always will be that way - just human nature unfortunately. I'm sure there are no members like that on this forum as they all come across as nice people :halo:


That's what I was going to suggest as the one obvious solution.
Richard E
 

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby sabrejet » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:52 am

We were at the 09 P&V yesterday - got there at 7.30 and onto the end of a looong queue to get in but still got a nice spot, so I don't really see the problem. No-one asked us to move so that they could get photos (we just had two chairs and no base camp clutter so maybe we weren't getting in the way), but I made sure that if I noticed anyone trying to take a photo from behind I sat down and/or got my head out of the way. Not sure if that was he case for all, though our neighbours along the fence seemed equally considerate.

But for me the 'highlight' was asking a known local spotter if a U-2 arrival was due (Wed/Thur) because the chase cars were out and he had a radio with him: he did everything he could to avoid a direct answer and so I asked another chap with a scanner, who told me it was pretty much on finals! So it was obvious that the first individual knew this too but didn't want anyone else to know. But as someone said above, hopefully his time will come.
User avatar
sabrejet
 

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby saint1 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:24 am

I've seen this from the fence line (yesterday) and from the back (previous years), every time I have enjoyed the experience and just made the best of the day.

Yesterday I put in a bit more effort got there at 7.15am and was rewarded with a fence line space, one chair and no clutter. I was surprised how many people tried to push their way to the front without a word, request or a smile. It reminded me of cars which push in at merged lanes. We let some German spotters in who asked politely struck up conversation and spent the whole day interchanging the space. There is also a step / ladder enclosure if the view is the problem.

One of the issues is the fence line is limited, with some imagination RIAT could allow more fence line. Yes, they will say it will cost more, safety issues, clearing up the Site etc etc but yesterday many areas were empty, some volunteers or paid contractors (!) were sitting watching departures themselves in splendid comfort. As for a loss, as somebody mentioned this must be an accounting issue... (due to overhead treatment etc), the demand is there as Monday tickets sold out online so they just need to put in some more thought on how to organise P&V a bit better and they would be rewarded.

As for next year, I will put in the effort arrive at 7.15am again enjoy a fantastic day.
User avatar
saint1
 
Location: Jct17, Wilts

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby bizfreeq » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:36 am

sneezy24 wrote:P&V West was open all day (certainly from 8:5 onward), I was there all day.

It reached capacity at some point and they were refusing entry after that. So perhaps they arrived after that point? I've done the west for many years and have never seen that many people in there! It was, as pointed out elsewhere, very civilised and there was some great banter to be had with people of many nationalities, great day had by us all. We arrived at the crack of dawn and obtained our usual spot on the fence for the 4 of us, however when asked, and we were many times, if we would mind letting someone in to get a shot, it was and always has been a yes! The only downside was the ice cream van that has been there on previous years, no matter what the weather, didn't show this year when we really needed one!
Cheers
Mark



If our airforces are never used, they have achieved their finest goal.
— General Nathan F. Twining
User avatar
bizfreeq
 
Location: Bournemouth UK

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby Blackcat1 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:47 am

Many people and I were turned around at park and view west at 9.30am as it was full. But did enjoy seeing departures from the end the runway and did save me 40 quid lol not that I didn't mind paying as that was my plan!
Gareth

6 Sqdn Canopeners
Oculi exercitus
Blackcats remembered
Jaguar Force Excellance! 2nd July 07.
User avatar
Blackcat1
 
Location: Edge of the Brecon Beacons, South Wales

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby slogen51 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:17 am

It's the age of digital photography

The numbers of people turning up on Monday has risen sharply over the years.

It's becoming a rarity to see someone with a pole and a note pad!
slogen51
 
Location: Surrey and Norfolk

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby gibson617 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:22 am

I did not attend the Departures day this year due to other commitments but do however have a similar winge regarding Park & View . I always go on the Wednesday and Thursday , usually East , and always have a good day . I take my wife who is not keen on crowds so we sit somewhere in the middle areas and enjoy the flying . I walk down to the approach on occasions to get some landing shots and always ensure that I do not obstruct anyone else in the area . I have noticed that some of the younger enthusiasts are not quite so considerate and quite frankly am appalled by their selfish attitude . An example of this was witnessed many times on Wednesday at P&V East . Near the approach was a guy alone with his chair and camera and doing his own thing until , each time we had an interesting landing , a young man appeared from elsewhere and stood in front of him thus blocking his view and forcing him to move to get his shot . This same young man had a perfectly good spot further down and near the fence ! I don't bother trying to get ground shots as from previous experience there are those who will try to block you and this young man and his buddies were a prime example .Quite frankly , I go for a good day out and do not want any hassle but some enthusiasts are intent on spoiling things for others with their selfish attitude but perhaps this is the same in all walks of life these days . That's it , Victor Meldrew moment over and I had a great time , met some great people and can't wait to do it all again
Canon EOS 550D
Canon EFS 18-135 f3.5/-5.6 IS
Canon EF 70-300 f4-5.6 IS USM
Canon EOS 7D Mk 2
Canon EF 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS USM Mk 2
User avatar
gibson617
 
Location: Berkshire

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby Blackcat1 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:34 am

People were being moved on at the end of the runway. We moved and parked away from the area and walked to the end of the runway. There was an oldish man on a small motorbike with L pates on asking people to move. He said he worked for the base and had been asked to move people as they are causing an obstruction and that there had been a terrorist threat!!!???? He then told people that a farmer had opened up a field for people to park in for a small fee. If he worked for the base surely he would have directed them to park and view east not a farmers field? Bit funny if you ask me I wouldn't be surprised if he worked for the farmer!!! :-)
Gareth

6 Sqdn Canopeners
Oculi exercitus
Blackcats remembered
Jaguar Force Excellance! 2nd July 07.
User avatar
Blackcat1
 
Location: Edge of the Brecon Beacons, South Wales

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby ChrisCwmbran » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:10 am

sneezy24 wrote:P&V West was open all day (certainly from 8:5 onward), I was there all day.


I was referring to the fact it was closed to new arrivals.
ChrisCwmbran
 

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby ChrisCwmbran » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:12 am

StevenR wrote:Despite what has been said, if you are polite and ask to 'take a space' you can still get to to the front to take pictures. I together with two others were today in the East P&V effectively three rows back from the 'fence' but with a few please and thank yous managed to get some excellent shots of aircraft we needed to photo from the front row.. if people all take the ' bull in a china shop' attitude then this is where we go wrong! Ok, I admit some people won't move but their day will come when they are not at the front for whatever reason. This hobby of ours is about give and take, not self, self, self.... unless after 50+ years i have got it wrong!


I waited patiently, and asked a couple of people if I could just get a shot of Pinky which had been standing in front of them for at least 10 minutes and was told in no uncertain terms to get lost.
ChrisCwmbran
 

Re: Departures Day: A Winge and a Request

Postby ChrisCwmbran » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:15 am

bizfreeq wrote:
sneezy24 wrote:P&V West was open all day (certainly from 8:5 onward), I was there all day.

It reached capacity at some point and they were refusing entry after that. So perhaps they arrived after that point? I've done the west for many years and have never seen that many people in there! It was, as pointed out elsewhere, very civilised and there was some great banter to be had with people of many nationalities, great day had by us all. We arrived at the crack of dawn and obtained our usual spot on the fence for the 4 of us, however when asked, and we were many times, if we would mind letting someone in to get a shot, it was and always has been a yes! The only downside was the ice cream van that has been there on previous years, no matter what the weather, didn't show this year when we really needed one!


I had my mother with me who is also an aviation enthusiast. On a hot day like that, being there for longer than we were would have been far far too much for her, hence making a much earlier arrival really wasn't possible.
ChrisCwmbran
 

Next

Return to RIAT

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chuck, Flightline UK, michaele, mprl, XA310 and 12 guests