UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two sqn

[Malcolm]

I've been wondering about 4 Sqn. Currently a reserve squadron on Hawk T2's at Valley so not gaining any additional seniority. I wonder if they may promote 4 Sqn back to full operational status as one of the new Typhoon Sqn, and rebadge the Hawk unit as 15(R) once the Tonkas go. 12 Sqn become the other Typhoon sqn. 9 and 31 join the queue to stand up on F-35.

I can't see the two new Typhoon squadrons standing up until Brimstone and Storm Shadow are integrated and released to service - so not till 2018 ish. And once Brimstone/SS are on Typhoon, the case for keeping Tornado on kind of disappears. So it's likely to be a direct swap - one extra Typhoon Sqn, one less Tonka Sqn.

I reckon the P8's will be any two from 22, 42, 120 or 201.

[Bluetail]

Active Squadrons who are currently "Reserve" squadrons are presently not able to be re-instated as full squadrons. (Reserve squadrons do not count their time as a reserve unit towards any seniority) I'm not fully certain of the reason, hence 206(R) Sqn (Currently the Heavy Lift test unit at Boscombe) will not be in the frame to be one of the P8 units.

And I agree with you Malcolm that two of the 4 squadrons you have listed will be P8 units.
If you analyse how (non training) Typhoon squadrons have been formed so far, its been traditionally a Fighter Sqn first then followed by a Bomber/Ground attack units, if that is continued there should be 1 New "F" and 1 new "B" , Currently there are 3 Fighter Sqns and two Bomber squadrons, my money will be on IX(B) Sqn (Tirpitz history and all that, plus lots of VSOs with IX background) and probably 19 (F) Sqn.

[Malcolm]

Active Squadrons who are currently "Reserve" squadrons are presently not able to be re-instated as full squadrons. (Reserve squadrons do not count their time as a reserve unit towards any seniority) I'm not fully certain of the reason, hence 206(R) Sqn (Currently the Heavy Lift test unit at Boscombe) will not be in the frame to be one of the P8 units.

Yes, but I found this on the MOD website

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles ... 7BCEEA.pdf

Ok - it appears to be written by 4sqn, but (if true) in 2010 it appears that 4 Sqn were the second most senior squadron in the RAF with 97.6 years (after 1 Sqn with 97.7 years). None of the other squadrons on that list are currently dormant. so they will have overtaken 4 Sqn by now, but how many other squadrons will come close to 98 years of seniority? 19 Sqn won't since they've been dormant/not gained any seniority since it lost the Phantoms in 1992.

Will the RAF allow 4 Sqn to disappear into the mists of time - or will they find a fudge to resurrect it as a front line unit? Like say rebadging 4(R) Sqn to 15(R) Sqn when the tornado unit disbands, hence leaving the 4 Sqn nameplate dormant, to be miraculously resurrected a month or two later as a front liner?

Answers on a postcard to RAF High Wycombe.

[tc2324]

To hell with all this seniority garbage......, the RAF needs a fixed wing Tiger Sqn to flaunt in front of all those European types every year.

.....But then I am unashamedly bias....

[Phoon]

Active Squadrons who are currently "Reserve" squadrons are presently not able to be re-instated as full squadrons. (Reserve squadrons do not count their time as a reserve unit towards any seniority) I'm not fully certain of the reason, hence 206(R) Sqn (Currently the Heavy Lift test unit at Boscombe) will not be in the frame to be one of the P8 units.

And I agree with you Malcolm that two of the 4 squadrons you have listed will be P8 units.
If you analyse how (non training) Typhoon squadrons have been formed so far, its been traditionally a Fighter Sqn first then followed by a Bomber/Ground attack units, if that is continued there should be 1 New "F" and 1 new "B" , Currently there are 3 Fighter Sqns and two Bomber squadrons, my money will be on IX(B) Sqn (Tirpitz history and all that, plus lots of VSOs with IX background) and probably 19 (F) Sqn.

That what my money is on. 19 seems to be hot favorite then 9 most likely or 12 as an outsider?

[Thunder]

Seemingly Michael Fallon will announce tomorrow (04th March) that Lossiemouth will be the base for the 2 new Typhoon Squadrons.

[RubyRoo]

Will there be enough space there?

1(F), II(AC), 6 and the two new squadrons... How often are there 5 squadrons at one base? Then you'll have the P-8's operating from there eventually too.

Checking the wiki page for Coningsby, it states that 100 squadron operating Typhoon T1/F2 will relocate from Leeming in 2017. Either someone knows something that we don't, or someone is having some fun with the wiki entries. It would make sense with the Hawk going to be retired within the next few years.

There are all the reports and stories out there about the RAF wanting to introduce a better adversary for the aggressor squadron. It would make sense to me to place all of the T1's and F2's on QRA and/or for 100 squadron usage.

I don't understand why the MoD decided that so little amount of Hawk T2's would be acceptable.

[POL]

There are no T.1s, nor F.2s, left in RAF service, so seems someone is very ill-informed in their wiki updating!

[Thunder]

Enough room with regards ramp space and hangarage. Messing and accommodation could be a problem, but nowadays the majority live outwith the base anyway.

One Sqd would go into the Northern HAS site, the other could go to either 2 Hangar and 'Bravo' Hard or 16/17 Hangars and 'Charlie' Hard. I assumed that the P-8s would take over the 16/17 Hangar area, but I've heard that they're to get a purpose built facility.

One thing for sure, if it happens it's going to be a busy place.

[RubyRoo]

There are no T.1s, nor F.2s, left in RAF service, so seems someone is very ill-informed in their wiki updating!

Are all the F2s upgraded to FGR4 and all the T1s upgraded to T3 now?

Enough room with regards ramp space and hangarage. Messing and accommodation could be a problem, but nowadays the majority live outwith the base anyway.

One Sqd would go into the Northern HAS site, the other could go to either 2 Hangar and 'Bravo' Hard or 16/17 Hangars and 'Charlie' Hard. I assumed that the P-8s would take over the 16/17 Hangar area, but I've heard that they're to get a purpose built facility.

One thing for sure, if it happens it's going to be a busy place.

It'll certainly be the place to be! If Lakenheath get the extra 2 squadrons of F-35A and keep the 2 F-15 squadrons, that's 2 superbases worth visiting.

[Wingman_90]

100 Sqn's Hawk T1s are going to remain in service until 2027 apparently!

So now all Mr Putin has to do is knock a hole in Lossie's runway, and that's our maritime surveillance and Northern QRA taken out.

[Thunder]

So now all Mr Putin has to do is knock a hole in Lossie's runway, and that's our maritime surveillance and Northern QRA taken out.

Seriously?????

[Wingman_90]

Seriously?????

Uh, yeah. In the hypothetical scenario where "things get real", one well placed cruise missile right in the middle of Lossie's runway could end our ability to launch maritime patrol (giving subs free reign) and Northern QRA Typhoons, and effectively eliminate the RAF's operational presence north of Waddington. Not saying it's likely to happen, but I bet it would have been considered during the Cold War.

Although, to be fair, that's not really an argument against having two extra Typh Sqns at Lossie - it's more a general point with regard the strategic wisdom of creating "hubs" (e.g. transport at Brize, ISTAR at Waddo, etc).

[Thunder]

I don't think a single missile attack on a single target is very likely, if anything all bases would be targeted simultaneously . However I think if we were ever in the position of having cruise missiles fired at us, then getting a few Typhoons and Poseidon's off the ground would be very futile and the least of our worries.

[RubyRoo]

Exactly.

If it's gotten to the point where a UK airbase is being attacked by Russia, then it doesn't matter what happens so long as one of the Vanguards is still out there on patrol.

A valid point would be Lossiemouth's runways being knocked out of action for another reason. There are a lot of eggs in this one basket, but assuming there isn't an all out attack on the base, then there are always procedures in place to make sure aircraft are available.

[Vulcanone]

Lossiemouth once had a Hunter TWU, A Shackleton AEW Sqn and several trainers plus the Jag OCU and Lots of visitors So I would say the answer is yes It could cope

[grimm6]

100 Sqn's Hawk T1s are going to remain in service until 2027 apparently!

So now all Mr Putin has to do is knock a hole in Lossie's runway, and that's our maritime surveillance and Northern QRA taken out.

Leuchars still has a valid Runway and HAS sites and the airfield is still actually open.. Leeming still has HAS sites as well... Obviously there is likely to be a period of tension before any attack so they would be able to deploy to other sites although there are not as many as before.

[EGDR]

Seriously?????

Not saying it's likely to happen, but I bet it would have been considered during the Cold War.

During the Cold War, and probably even now, it would be a nuclear strike - the runway would be the least of your worries.

[Vulcanone]

I doubt Russia would go to all the troble of knocking out a few airfields with a few Tu-160s carrying Cruise missiles!

Especially as its far easier to wipe out the country with all the ICBMs they have and all the Subs they have that carry Nukes.

T

[TonyO]

No mention of the 8th Typhoon squadron then?

I'll just leave this here:

http://aviationweek.com/awindefense/bri ... n-squadron