UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

[Lofty89]

Reported in The Sun that the RAF are ordering 12 P-8s?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... -subs.html

[Jaymer15]

I have along thought that the P-8 would be a good replacement for the Nimrod and having seen it at RIAT I was vary impressed. Hopefully its more than just paper talk.

[RubyRoo]

An order for P-8's did unfortunately seem inevitable. The 'Seedcorn' project has seen an increased amount of personnel learning the ropes on the P-8.

I would never turn my nose up at the MoD acquiring any MPA. The country needs it, and we've become the laughing stock of the defence community in that we can't even adequately protect our maritime borders from potential foes.

The P-8 is/was massively inferior to the MRA4.

I wish the government would look towards a certain Japanese platform instead, which has far better capabilities. Not everything we have to buy has to be American or done in co-operation with Europe.

[page_verify]

That's a bit defeatist at the first hurdle? Although there's no suggestion anything has officially been decided - other than RAF crews already in P-8s and an MoD procurement section already setup - we shouldn't think that a UK operated US sourced platform is a bad combination. The E-3D, RC-135 and MQ-1 are examples where we've complemented rather than duplicated a US capability.

[ColintheCaterpillar]

The P-8 is/was massively inferior to the MRA4.

Maybe it was, but still exists, so isn't massively inferior now. It is also based on a slightly more modern type (737-800/900) which will surely allow a slightly lower through life cost as the worldwide fleet is huge compared to the bespoke Nimrod, which wasn't without its problems.

[Dazza37]

The P-8 is/was massively inferior to the MRA4.

I wish the government would look towards a certain Japanese platform instead, which has far better capabilities. Not everything we have to buy has to be American or done in co-operation with Europe.

Care to share with us all, the basis for your claim? I can only assume, given such succinct comments, that you have close, working experience, of all three airframes operational capabilities?

-Dazza

[RubyRoo]

The P-8 is/was massively inferior to the MRA4.

I wish the government would look towards a certain Japanese platform instead, which has far better capabilities. Not everything we have to buy has to be American or done in co-operation with Europe.

Care to share with us all, the basis for your claim? I can only assume, given such succinct comments, that you have close, working experience, of all three airframes operational capabilities?

-Dazza

Given the publicly available capabilities of each airframe, it's easy to see which of the three would have been a better fit for us.

Comparing the MRA4 and P-8 is moot now, but the differences in capability between the P-8 and Kawasaki P-1 is strikingly obvious.

The United Kingdom as a maritime nation has a large amount of water to cover, from the Atlantic to the Channel, from the North Sea to the swathe of the GIUK gap. Considering finance is at a premium, and not many units are likely to be purchased, it's imperative that an aircraft capable of performing for extended periods is selected. The P-1 has double the combat radius of the P-8, and if needs be, can stay on station for much longer. Our own independent project with the MRA4 was designed to have a far longer range than the P-8 and to be able to stay on station a really long time. I think that says a lot about what the service wanted.

You can make the argument that if required, the P-8 could always aerially refuel or have another aircraft go out to replace it, but then we start going from the realms of independent capability to dependency on other units.

Colin made a good point about lower life costs as the P-8 shares a common airframe with the vast variety of 737 variants in operation throughout the world. However, any purchase from the US inevitably ends up costing a huge amount. The Japanese have made huge ground in starting to export some of their defensive kit, and as the first potential export partner, they'd likely sell it to us for a much better price. The unit cost for the P-1 is also far cheaper than the P-8. If an order for 12 units was placed, that's around half a billion dollars saved instantly.

page_verify, should an order for P-8's be placed, I wouldn't be unhappy. Having ANY MPA capability is better than having none at all, and the P-8 is by no means a poor aircraft at performing that role. You've rightly pointed out some examples which have worked out well for us, excluding some slight MAA issues with the RC-135's. The Americans can afford to place a huge amount of orders and have them constantly patrolling the sea boards. We can't. Let's make the best of of limited funds and go for the right platform.

[Davef68]

This was always going to happen after the 2015 election. I heard a little publiscised interview with Liam Fox just after MRA4 was cancelled (ON Radio Scotland) where he said that the UK undoubtedly needed an MPA capability, but Nimrod was not the platform to deliver that, not least as they had ni idea when it would actually be available and how much it was cost.

He said he fully expected such an order to be placed when the 'financial conditions' permitted. I also suspect the LIb Dems would have veto any such significant military spend.

There is a reason the vast majority of Seedcorn staff were sent to the P-8 units. I'd imagine the team that won the USN ASW competitionlast year will form the basis of the Posideon IPT

[Davef68]

The big advantage the P-8 gives us is it's in production and in service now, and we sign up for the USN continuous improvement process. IIRC, the P-8 Mission System shares a common ancestry with the proposed MRA4 one. I'd suspect any deliveries to the UK may be quite quck.

The P-1 is still in it's production test flights phase, it's immature technology

I'd also look at P-8 as being a replacement for Sentinel in the Land Surveillance role as well.

[jamesg23]

If we was to buy the P8, where would they be based? Could Lossiemouth cope with 3 typhoon squadrons and 8 P's?

[T_J]

If we was to buy the P8, where would they be based? Could Lossiemouth cope with 3 typhoon squadrons and 8 P's?

Likely to be based at Waddington.

[page_verify]

Given the publicly available capabilities of each airframe, it's easy to see which of the three would have been a better fit for us.

My guess is the government would have used information either classified or given under a commercial NDA to make the right decision, rather than asked the spotters to use public information. I suspect that's why there's been a different decision made.

[Strathayr]

If a large number are ordered it would make sense in many respects to reactivity Kinloss the Army could easily be re based easily elseware with minimal effect on their capabilities.

[Vulcanone]

I'm thinking on the same lines as TJ.

Waddington given they are spending quite a bit on it

T

[Thunderbolt II]

About time! How ridiculous that as an island nation we have done without MPA for so long. Given the work done at Waddington, its central position and ISTAR connections I'd be very surprised if the P-8s aren't based there.

[Phil]

We'll probably lease half the fleet to Ryanair/Easyjet.

[page_verify]

Good luck moving any new capabilities into Scotland now.

[Thunder]

Good luck moving any new capabilities into Scotland now.

Why??? When I woke up this morning Scotland was still very much part of the UK.

[TankBuster]

Excellent news and its about time too. Thank goodness we are getting a tried & tested airframe, a very sensible decision I think .

TankBuster

[astor29]

I have spoked to a RAF guy and he told me the RAF would order 6 P8's with a further 6 to be brought at a later date after the election was complete and they will be based at waddington with a new apron and support buildings.

astor29