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UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

A forum for discussing all things related to MILITARY AVIATION including Military Aviation news. No off-topic discussions here please.
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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by page_verify » Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:07 pm

Standby for the handbrake to be applied to the P-8 programme.....

The core plan for Britain’s armed forces will be revised after the election because of a funding crisis, The Times can reveal. The unravelling of the 2015 defence review is a blow for Sir Michael Fallon, the defence secretary. Sources questioned whether he could remain in post after an anticipated Conservative election victory in June given the problems that he has presided over at the Ministry of Defence (MoD). They include:.......

A £1.8 billion programme to buy a fleet of Apache helicopters and a £3 billion plan to buy and support nine maritime patrol aircraft from the United States are under threat. Both projects could be slowed down or reduced.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -rnv9mb9mp

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by paddyboy » Mon May 01, 2017 3:24 pm

OOPS :O
XH558, always the first lady in my life
Just remember, please don't tell the wife


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GRIM REAPERS SUPPORTER

filmman
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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by filmman » Mon May 01, 2017 9:59 pm

Follow the money, what could go with the least damage to capability. The Army needs Apache. The Navy needs subs, frigates and plane anti sub capability; we rely on ships for trade, food, survival. The carriers are a luxury because in home waters they are vulnerable and unnecessary. Abroad, countries needing our help will provide facilities. We are no longer an imperial power that can impose its will on others -we would need a carrier fleet like the USA. If we want to protect the Falklans we need boom enhanced tankers, an island(s) airfield air bridge and an adequate garrison. Sadly, we wasted a fortune on carriers whose capability was compromised. We needed flatops that could initially stand off with long range aircraft, and then deploy VTOL on shore. Bottom line is we can no longer do everything, we need to focus on essentials.
Filmman

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by page_verify » Wed May 03, 2017 6:17 pm

Filmman, I admire your critical thinking skills and approach to solving the problem. Unfortunately, the only examples of effective procurement in the last 17 years seem to have been as a result of UORs being invested in after painful lessons were learnt, rather than up front investment in damn good sounding suggestions.

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Gary
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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by Gary » Fri May 05, 2017 10:32 pm

Posh are going to Wembley (albeit for a tin cup)

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by welshandy » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:51 pm

A quote from Mr Corbyn on Question Time Friday 2nd June " we will invest properly in our armed services, the numbers in the armed services have gone down, the navy are crying out for more ships, the air force are crying out for more surveillance aircraft."

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by page_verify » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:16 pm

Whoever wins the election is likely to kick the military hard and expect more savings.


Army fears for future as pledge on troop numbers is abandoned

Officers are preparing to reduce the size of the army to as little as 65,000 after the Conservatives dropped a pledge to maintain the force at its target of 82,000, The Times understands. Options being considered within the military include reducing the army by 17,000 personnel to less than two thirds of the size of the French army and only slightly bigger than Germany’s land force, according to two defence sources. A third source said that “contingency plans” were being prepared in case the army was cut to 60,000 or 70,000. Officials were even asked this year to consider the implications of a full-time army of as few as 55,000, although officers believe this is unlikely.

A reduction of at least 2,000 personnel is almost inevitable as military chiefs and civil servants grapple with a funding hole in the defence budget of at least £10 billion over ten years........

A Conservative pledge to retain an army of at least 82,000 is absent from Theresa May’s manifesto. Instead the Tories broadly commit to maintaining “the overall size of the armed forces”. This means that a reduction in soldiers could be offset by an increase in the navy and RAF, which are struggling to man ships and aircraft. A Whitehall source said that such a calculation “is too simple a way of thinking”. Money saved within the army budget should be ploughed back into the army, he said......

“They are having to think the unthinkable,” a defence source said about the ideas being floated among officials to balance the budget. “Options are being socialised — they are socialised, informally briefed, written down and then formally briefed,” he said. Small teams have been told to prepare to work with the Cabinet Office on any post-election defence review, described as likely to be a “new chapter” to the last strategic defence and security review, conducted in 2015.

The political imperative to retain the army at a certain size on paper had become a shackle because there was insufficient money to equip and support a force of 82,000, sources said. Certain jobs in the logistics chain could be contracted out to the private sector, reducing manpower without affecting fighting capability and more use could also be made of the Army Reserve, they said........

An MoD spokesman said: “There are no plans to reduce the size of the armed forces.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -xxmxsc9qt

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by Tally-ho » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:59 pm

welshandy wrote:A quote from Mr Corbyn on Question Time Friday 2nd June " we will invest properly in our armed services, the numbers in the armed services have gone down, the navy are crying out for more ships, the air force are crying out for more surveillance aircraft."
What a wonderfully patriotic man - not. :whistle: :roll:

- The RAF is to receive nine P-8 Poseidons, ordered and being built.
- F-35's and personnel are being worked up and trained in the USA.
- The RN is to receive two world class carriers, soon to sail the seas.
- RN Type 26 have been confirmed and ordered.
- Trident given the green light with four subs to maintain our continuous at sea presence.
- British Army to receive new Apache helo gunships, heavy armour to be deployed to NATO's eastern flank ..
- and .. and ..

None of the above carried the blessings of that IRA sympathiser. When it came to decisions in parliament Corbyn consistently spoke against anything that remotely resembled military expenditure - go check Hansard. Let's get real here guys.

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by RubyRoo » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:54 am

Tally-ho wrote:
welshandy wrote:A quote from Mr Corbyn on Question Time Friday 2nd June " we will invest properly in our armed services, the numbers in the armed services have gone down, the navy are crying out for more ships, the air force are crying out for more surveillance aircraft."
What a wonderfully patriotic man - not. :whistle: :roll:

- The RAF is to receive nine P-8 Poseidons, ordered and being built.
- F-35's and personnel are being worked up and trained in the USA.
- The RN is to receive two world class carriers, soon to sail the seas.
- RN Type 26 have been confirmed and ordered.
- Trident given the green light with four subs to maintain our continuous at sea presence.
- British Army to receive new Apache helo gunships, heavy armour to be deployed to NATO's eastern flank ..
- and .. and ..

None of the above carried the blessings of that IRA sympathiser. When it came to decisions in parliament Corbyn consistently spoke against anything that remotely resembled military expenditure - go check Hansard. Let's get real here guys.
Where to start with how wrong you are....

- The RAF is to receive nine P-8 Poseidons, ordered and being built. - Only after the Tories cancelled MRA4. Cancellation of MRA4 and subsequent buy of the P-8 has a higher price than what we would have paid for Nimrod.
- F-35's and personnel are being worked up and trained in the USA. - Would have happened under any government.
- The RN is to receive two world class carriers, soon to sail the seas. - Ordered under Labour.
- RN Type 26 have been confirmed and ordered. - Yes, 8 ships to replace the 13. Type 31 is not expected to be as well armed as a T23. Don't fool for the 'more ships' lie the Tories have sold.
- Trident given the green light with four subs to maintain our continuous at sea presence. - Labour support retaining Trident. (It wouldn't surprise me if you were one of the old ones on Question Time the other night).
- British Army to receive new Apache helo gunships, heavy armour to be deployed to NATO's eastern flank .. - Again, 38/50 units to replace 67. Another cut.
- and .. and ..

As for Corbyn being an IRA sympathiser, since when has campaigning for peace ever been wrong rather than take up a hardline stance? But hey, you keep on blowing God Save The Unelected Queen whilst adorned in a giant flag of St. George. Idiot :lol:

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by slogen51 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:58 pm

To be fair Corbyn refused to back Trident , but will respect the labour position - so in that respect Tally-ho was correct.

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by Tally-ho » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:07 pm

@RubyRoo

Your rant smacks of desperation and of course as usual when you can't put your point of view into a cohesive discussion you resort to insult. Oh dear ... :lol: :roll:

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by RubyRoo » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:08 pm

Tally-ho wrote:@RubyRoo

Your rant smacks of desperation and of course as usual when you can't put your point of view into a cohesive discussion you resort to insult. Oh dear ... :lol: :roll:
It's not a rant, it was the perfect countenance to your pure Tory bias. You wrote inaccurate information which I was happy to correct. Do you have anything else false to post for me?

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by the concerned » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:38 pm

The only answer is to take the trident renewal out of the defence budget

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by filmman » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:11 pm

Historically, since WW2 the armed have continually shrunk both in size and conventional capability, a path laterr followed by the deterrent. Politicians of all parties have saved money to be spent elsewhere; pulling back from East of Suez....The Peace Dividend...to Balancing the Books/fixing budget Black Holes. The shrinkage trend will only stop when defence becomes an awkward necessity. So until then anything can go, the bigger the price ticket the more tempting to chop. You might reasonably ask why the orders were placed in the first place.
Thought the Navy loses/mothballs 2 carriers but the RAF gets normal F-35s. P8 deliveries are extended or we cancel and buy cheaper. Tornadoes are immediately scraped but Typhoon programme kept. Navy keeps Astute sub programme but delays new frigates. If possible Trident is extended, but that depends on nuclear propulsion ageing. The Army keeps cheap existing soldiers but delays procurement of new kit.
Remember TSR2 morphed through F111, Mirage IV to Phantoms.
Filmman

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by Agent K » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:04 pm

viewtopic.php?f=287&t=146833&start=20

Tally-Ho thinks that the low flying training and Mach loop flying is purely for some ego massaging only and doesn't quite understand why flying for hours over the North Sea is not equivalent to the Mach loop etc. so I'd tend to steer clear of anything he'd say on defence as I'll informed at best.

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by onemac » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:01 pm

News just out - 120 and 201 Sqns it is then.

MoD Announcement

Al

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by Harkins » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:12 pm

I guess this means relativity little again as with so few of them operating from the one base, surely they'll carry no squadron markings and be pooled anyway. Looking at the delivery schedule, it's also hard to imagine that there will ever be nine in service at any one time. And with the news that it's planned to also use them to replace the five Sentinel for wide area land surveillance, they'll be flogged hard and spread thinly.

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by RubyRoo » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:20 pm

Harkins wrote:I guess this means relativity little again as with so few of them operating from the one base, surely they'll carry no squadron markings and be pooled anyway. Looking at the delivery schedule, it's also hard to imagine that there will ever be nine in service at any one time. And with the news that it's planned to also use them to replace the five Sentinel for wide area land surveillance, they'll be flogged hard and spread thinly.
This forum doesn't allow for like functions, Harkins, but I agree with this 100%.

They should either up the unit number to 12, or they should keep them as purely MPA aircraft.

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Re: UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

Post by H.A.Bucken » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:27 pm

Also see today's Daily Telegraph pages 1 and 2 for some critical opinion.
Roger

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