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UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two sqn

All discussion about the 2015 SDSR in here please.
Contrail1958
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Contrail1958 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:08 am

The only thing with idea's and what's written in some far off place is certainly NOT the
situation here at Lossie.
Your lucky to see 4 or 6 jets on a BUSY day and they always rotate the same ones each day.
Non flying day's are becoming the norm and sqdn stand downs for being away for long
periods on Det.
Topping all of this ATC have appeared to be chasing away any passing traffic for lack of
fire cover etc.
Who'd be an enthusiast these day's :'(

Harkins
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Harkins » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:53 am

Contrail1958 wrote:Topping all of this ATC have appeared to be chasing away any passing traffic for lack of
fire cover etc.
That's interesting. I had noticed over the last few years that there are increasing numbers of photos being posted of military aircraft using non-military airfields such as Prestwick, Dundee, Newquay, Stansted and East Midlands. Perhaps this is in part because the military bases are often deserted of ATC, firecover etc?

RubyRoo
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by RubyRoo » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:43 pm

Harkins wrote:That's true, but perhaps not so great for some of the local residents with increased noise. I know this is an enthusiasts view, but I'd quite like the two new squadrons to have been formed at Leeming. I don't live near there, but a bit more spread of the jets is good for enthusiasts (not actually important) and for spreading the noise and maybe even the financial benefits to local communities.

I guess the biggest issue with my suggestion is that as the jets appear to be pooled these days, they probably do need to concentrate them. And these additional squadrons are being formed by donations from existing (shrinking) squadrons aren't they - rather than from new/additional aircraft?
Leeming would have been a far better choice to stand up any new squadrons (in my opinion). I support the idea of shrinking the defence estate down in times of fewer units, but Leeming has the infrastructure to host a couple of Typhoon squadrons, and strategically it makes far more sense (maybe too much sense to some in the MoD...), to spread the locations of our fighter aircraft around.

The problem as you mentioned is that the Typhoon fleet is now pooled rather than specific aircraft being assigned to their respective squadrons. You have to ask the question, is there really a point in forming any new squadrons? It would be purely for the purpose of fooling the layman into thinking we have more jets than we actually do. Although I love to see units continue their long and distinguished service, it would be disrespectful to bring back a squadron, only to underfund them, understaff them and merely have them as tools to appease the public.

If they're going to form new squadrons, let's do it properly. Tranche 1 aircraft (which some of the aircraft we're now supposedly keeping) can be reassigned to purely air defence duty and based at the relevant airbases, and new aircraft we receive can boost the numbers in the current multi-role squadrons.

I don't mean for this to turn into fantasy aircraft fleets, but to me this seems rather logical:

Lossie:
- 1 Tranche 1 air defence squadron for NQRA. (1.)
- 2 FGR4 multi-role squadrons. (2, 6).

Leeming:
- OCU. (29).
- 1 Tranche 1 squadron to do the Aggressor function. (Is this being done by ASDOT?)

Coningsby:
- 1 Tranche 1 air defence squadron for SQRA. (3.)
- 2 FGR4 multi-role squadrons. (11 and 1 more.)
- OEU. (41).

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gamecock
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by gamecock » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:24 pm

but Leeming has the infrastructure to host a couple of Typhoon squadrons
It doesn't. A significant amount of money would have to be spent to bring it up to standard. Then you'd have to increase the amount of manpower, ground equipment, test equipment, spares, tooling etc. and amend the current contracts for all of these to support 3 MOBs plus deployments.
Except that it was mentioned as 29(R) Typhoon OCU would move North.
Where? The only reference I saw was in a DIO document on future infrastructure plans. It looks like DIO were asked to plan/cost the infra changes and it was included in their report as a potential future contract. Were there any announcements from the MOD/RAF on this issue?

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Thunder
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Thunder » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:36 pm

gamecock wrote:
Except that it was mentioned as 29(R) Typhoon OCU would move North.
Where? The only reference I saw was in a DIO document on future infrastructure plans. It looks like DIO were asked to plan/cost the infra changes and it was included in their report as a potential future contract. Were there any announcements from the MOD/RAF on this issue?

That's what I'm referring to.

Vulcanone
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Vulcanone » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:45 pm

The RAF has said nothing regarding as to what the new Squadrons will be or when they will form. (if they ever will)?

So best not get too worried about how much space Lossie does, doesn't or will have yet?

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HaveQuick2
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by HaveQuick2 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:00 pm

Vulcanone wrote:The RAF has said nothing regarding as to what the new Squadrons will be or when they will form. (if they ever will)?
Not quite true. The RAF has said nothing PUBLICALLY regarding as to what the new Squadrons will be....

There has obviously been plenty of talk within the RAF.

If 29 do move to Lossie as a Tranche 1 AD unit, that would allow the recently disbanded Tornado OCU (XV) to reform as the Typhoon OCU. What would the other Tranche 1 AD unit be though? 19? 25? Based where?

Also, will the new Texans take on a squadron number plate?
HQ2 out

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Thunder
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Thunder » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:13 pm

Coningsby and Lossiemouth are surely the only two candidates for basing. It would cost far more to bring Leeming up to standards, as opposed to extending existing infrastructure at the two current bases. I wonder if the system they have in the USA for AD would be an option here, where parent fighter units deploy 4 a/c to a another base on a permanent rotation QRA?

09andrew
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by 09andrew » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:59 pm

Leeming for 2 squadrons and a contingency plan for sScottish devolution...

Phoon
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Phoon » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:30 am

In an ideal world Leeming would seemingly be the ideal basing option as it would fill the 'gap' between Lossiemouth and Coningsby which one one of the reasons the MOD stated the reason it was developed into the third Tornado F3 base in the late 1980s. However since then most of Leeming's accommodation and buildings have been utilized by various ground units, many who moved in with the closure of RAF Sealand, (these originally planed to go to Scampton, but abandoned on cost grounds due to the poor condition of much of that bases infrastructure). Therefore whilst the airfield may be suitable for Typhoon operations (and has supported a handful of detachments in the past) the accommodation and other facilities are not available, unless the Scampton or other basing options are looked at for these ground units then I'd think unlikely. Maybe the rumored future privatization of 100 sdn duties will free up some room?

Additionally it has been suggested that 29(R) sdn may move north, however with all the simulators and associated training facility's located at Coningsby it would make little sense for this to happen. The OCU is likely to reduce anyway as more training is undertaken on the simulator, the current display pilot being a product of a simulator only course. With this route being taken most of the T3s will become largely redundant.

Unknown74
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Unknown74 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:14 pm

I believe No. 12 Sqdn has been announced as a Typhoon Squadron, does anyone know wether this is one of the 2 which has been planned and wether it will be No.12 to Coningsby and the yet to be announced Squadron up to Lossie?

Or is this not the plan now that Fallon has left the MoD?

slogen51
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by slogen51 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:09 pm

2040 that should see me out!

Edit : another 22 years of grey unmarked typhoons - fantastic

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Thunder
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Thunder » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:12 pm

It's already been widely reported that 12 Sqn will form on the Typhoon probably towards the end of this year at Coningsby. 12 Sqn will initially integrate Qatari personnel, including pilots and ground-crew while they work up on the type before they receive their own aircraft in 2022.

It was also reported at the same time that the UK Typhoon fleet was going to expand by three not two extra Sqns, so there is still another two to be announced.

The above was reported after Michael Fallon left office in October, so that isn't a factor in any future plans.

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TonyO
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by TonyO » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:32 pm

No guarantee of three squadrons, it will only be possible if the TyTan contract comes up with the necessary savings. Manning will also be another challenge. Two squadrons definitely, three at a push.

RubyRoo
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two sqn

Post by RubyRoo » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:06 pm

So that's 9 and 12 confirmed as 2 out of the 3.

I wonder if we will get the third Typhoon squadron mentioned. Maybe XV?

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TonyO
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two sqn

Post by TonyO » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:56 am

More on this.

Seems that the eighth front-line Typhoon unit appears to be going ahead.

It was described to me that 12 Sqn (Joint Qatari) would be the eighth unit, with 9 Sqn as the sixth, so the 7th is still unknown, perhaps 43, 56 or 111?

Also been told that squadrons markings will be coming back.

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markranger
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two sqn

Post by markranger » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:30 pm

TonyO wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:56 am
More on this.

Seems that the eighth front-line Typhoon unit appears to be going ahead.

It was described to me that 12 Sqn (Joint Qatari) would be the eighth unit, with 9 Sqn as the sixth, so the 7th is still unknown, perhaps 43, 56 or 111?

Also been told that squadrons markings will be coming back.
Interesting,Wonder where they would have the extra sqn? Leeming? Or can Coningsby handle 4 sqns + OCU and 41sqn?
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RubyRoo
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two sqn

Post by RubyRoo » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:30 pm

markranger wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:30 pm
TonyO wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:56 am
More on this.

Seems that the eighth front-line Typhoon unit appears to be going ahead.

It was described to me that 12 Sqn (Joint Qatari) would be the eighth unit, with 9 Sqn as the sixth, so the 7th is still unknown, perhaps 43, 56 or 111?

Also been told that squadrons markings will be coming back.
Interesting,Wonder where they would have the extra sqn? Leeming? Or can Coningsby handle 4 sqns + OCU and 41sqn?
Mark

My understanding is that any new squadron will be formed from existing aircraft and not new ones, therefore space won't be an issue.

I would imagine Coningsby would take any new squadron as Lossie will be receiving the P-8 (or Poseidon MRA Mk.1 as it's to be known - https://twitter.com/RoyalAirForce/statu ... 2249535488 ). I'm sure some of the Lossie posters will be able to inform me much better on this though.

I would also imagine that any further Typhoon squadron would be XV, although 43, 56 and 111 are very much welcome :thumb:

I've noticed squadron markings being applied to a few more aircraft as of late. Hopefully the whole fleet is indeed marked up :)

Vulcanone
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two sqn

Post by Vulcanone » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:36 am

Given the size of 228 OCU when it was at Coningsby with 6,54 doing the strike and 41 doing the recce side of things all with Phantoms. And then training all the ex Lightning Sqns up it was quite big almost of the time.

And all the units shared the main ramp in the time before they built the HAS site.

So I'd say yep it should fit in....

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