Is Odiham to close ??

[septic]

Heard on BBC news today that the 22 new Chinooks will be based at Benson ! does this mean closure for Odiham as I thought same was being retained ??

Septic

[RichC]

Well with 70 Chinooks in all, i don't expect Odiham can cater for all of them (Even though some will be in theatre or training elsewhere) so i guess there will be 7, 18 and 27 at Odiham and the other (i'm guessing two squadrons) at Benson.

I heard a rumour that the RAF Merlins were going to Yeovilton or Culdrose to replace the Seaking HC4s in the RM support (CHF) role. So if that is true then Benson will have quite a bit of room available.

In any case, ramp space at Benson is extensive, more so than Odiham and Benson can accomodate alot of helicopters.... not sure about Accomodation for the crews/families though?

[HighlandSniper]

I'm with Razor ... ...

Perhaps it's just a case of Odiham being at capacity. As I understand it, the Merlins currently at Benson will probably transfer to the Commando helicopter force based at either Yeovilton or Culdrose, thus freeing up Benson to accommodate two new Chinook squadrons.

N.B. this is purely my personal opinion and not based on any hard evidence.

[robin]

As I understood it, last time they looked at the possible idea of closing Odiham (a few years ago), they the MOD, worked out that it would cost more to close it (and move the operation to Benson), than keep it open.

I understand that the MOD do not fully own the site, because they seized the land ("requisitioned") for war use. Therefore if they closed the base, they would make NO money for the sale of land of the airfield site etc, as the land would revert back to the original owners of the land before the MOD Seized it for war use (Similar situation to Greenham Common airfield, where nearly all the land reverted back to "Common Land" as the MOD did not actually own the land).

I have been told that in Odiham case, the land would revert back to local farmers and others who have long term rights to the land, before it was borrowed ("requisitioned") by the MOD for wartime use!

Also they seem to be under contract that if they ever left the site (Odiham Airfield), they would have to legally clean up the site totally, before giving it back to the orignal landowners. This I understood to be another one of the major problems.

Perhaps someone else wolud like to comment further????

[ROB MkIX]

I don't think that Odiham will close with that number of Chinooks on strength and I think I heard on our local news that Chinook crew training would be carried out at Benson but no mention of Odiham closing.

[robin]

Further to Rich comment.

I understrand the MOD have been looking at building on the west side of Benson airfield (just north of the tower area), with the view to build one or two hangars and support buildings in this area, or another one or two hangars to the north of the existing hangars.

However as I understand it they have run into planning problems!!!!!

Perhaps someone more local could comment further, as to the current state of play at Benson

[headset 57]

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[GaryS]

BBC news 'interactive' said earlier that 10 of the 22 new chinooks would be based at Benson,and that locals have nothing to fear from increased noise levels....
to go with the 150 noise complaints they have a year!!

[KINROTATE]

So the Chinook fleet get a dedicated training unit. Lets start number crunching - number that squadron! What chance the 72 plate being re-allocated?

[robin]

Last time they the MOD looked for long term savings, they did consider, and appeared to want really want to close RAF Odiham.

I would imagine, in the next defence review (which is long overdue), and the current situation of MOD finances, that they would almost certinly look again (this time more deeply) at closing Odiham, and therefore the long term prospects for RAF Odiham in the current climate is not good.

Once they could get round the issue of the clean up of the site, and the cost involved, it would seem very logical and cost effective to close Odiham, and move all the RAF heavy and meduim helicopter into one base, which would be a lot cheaper to operate.

Operating cost of an airfield is high, even with an airfield like RAF FAirford the cost of running it as it has been over the last few years is about 40 million pound per year, and thats without the cost of having a full time squardon operationally based.

The MOD needs to save a lot of money, not only because they have overspent, and the Labour party is funding its wars now partly from the dence budget, but also other project need to be funded i.e. Nimrod R.2. new and larger RPV's, A400. The replacement of the Puma Helicopters (that now are very old, and are giving more and problems as they get even older).

Therefore very regretable it maybe some airfield will close as military airfields. Cottesmore and Lyneham has already clearly be lined up, along with Wittering (more longer term). Kinloss and Leeming are also very likely to close within the next few years. Other sacred cows may also be under serious threat i.e Marham, and even dare i say it Yeovilton if it losses all its old Commando Helicopters (to be possible replaced by TDY Merlins operating from a site in the Plymouth dockyard area).

Moving all the heavy and medium helicopter into one airfield (Benson as Odiham has no room to expand), is therefore logical as it cuts down communication problems between two different airfields, and its a lot cheeper to operate from one airfield.

I am not in favour of closing more military airfields down, but under the current situation something has got to go, and Odiham must be very high on the list for closures.

[RichC]

Marham, and even dare i say it Yeovilton if it losses all its old Commando Helicopters (to be possible replaced by TDY Merlins operating from a site in the Plymouth dockyard area).

Where on earth did you hear that from?
Where can any helicopter operate from in the dockyard? They have a hard enough time operating from Western Mill HLS in the dockyard let alone anywhere else.
Why operate a load of Medium helicopters in an area which is a restricted zone (the Bond Dauphins have to get permission from FOST Ops just to land there) and within/close to a range which is always 'hot' with RN training? Doesn't make sense one bit. Not only that, it's surrounded by a city of houses, factories, a live arming jetty to its west for ships, ships and masts all over the place around the river Tamar and an airport approach to its North!!

No hangars, no ramp, no anything!!
It would be like Banja Luka in Bosnia! I don't think that would be ideal to operate Helicopters from and theres no reason too either because the CHF only spent about 5% of their flying hours down around that area anyway!

[robin]

Hi Rich.

I knew that would cause an issue.

Well the story goes like this. In the past they did based Marine Helicopters at Plymouth, all be it out of a trading type estate area.

With part closure of the dockyard, and ships being transferred to Portsmouth, would leave large areas vacant for such an area to become available for short term TDY of Puma's or Merlins (Moday to Friday).

Not saying it will come about, but just one idea that has been floated, and not well received by the Navy, especially at the navy has its HQ at Yeovilton. It could be that Culdrose goes instead, with the Culdrose helicopters moving to Yeovilton, thereby saying the MOD shed loads of money.

It is not understood in some quarters why the navy needs two large airfields in the south west, when they could possible get by with just one?

This has come about with further recent news of the navy losing two more large ships, and possible more to go under a defence review, hence less navy helicopters needed to go on-board ships.

We urgently need a full Defence Review, but under the current climate, it would seem that the navy would lose out again, as they have not really been needed either in Iraq or Afganistan, and hence they could lose more than the Army and Air Force who have rightly or wrongly may have a stronger case.

Everyone seems to be fighting their own corner, very little seems to be safe except for infantry units, medium and heavy helicopter units, and transport squadron (air force and army).

Not saying its right, just saying as it is, when you have bases like Marham under threat in the future, anything can happen

[RichC]

It wouldn't surprise that Culdrose got the Merlins. They already have Merlins there and they have the joint RN/RAF Merlin Maintenance Facility there too.
But as you say, the CHF is HQ at Yeovilton and they have plenty of space for the CHF Merlins.
Culdrose is in a situation where however, it's well out of the way, and well out of the way of where the CHF mostly operates.
You'll probably find that was one of the reasons why they didn't choose St Mawgan for the A400 or JSF too and that too closed.

[KINROTATE]

Of course Culdrose is really handy for Salisbury plain, Colchester etc where there customers training grounds are. The Navy will not get these cabs, they will stay RAF.

[robin]

Yes you are right, it is certain that RNAS Culdrose would not get the RAF Merlins, for the reason you state.

Also when the navy is confronted with the next's defence financial year budget, and the money that is available to the navy, would the adminals rather keep RNAS Culdrose as an active airfield, or keep one or two ships ships active?

The answer is not rocket science, they would opt for the ships of course, so, RNAS Culdrose future is not looking good, and thats without the long awaited full defence review.

[Fighterfoto]

If I were the owner of the land would I really insist on returning them to fields/woods again? The value of the land with their infrastucture are far higher than as agricultural land and the owner would be foolish to insist they were reverted to their previous condition.

[robin]

Halton is not the same case as Odiham, as I understand it.

While some of the land at Halton maybe have to be returned to the Rothschild's, as I believe they also may have rights to some of the land, Odiham is more of a problem.

As I understand Odiham was used in the wars with large amounts of toxic materials (that make a big bangs etc), while Halton was more of a backwater airfield.

Halton old SMALL BOMB dump at was cleared out many years ago, and the site made safe, therefore the Halton site may not hold too many unknown issue of dumped explosives etc (as good records have been kepted). While some of Halton buildings may/do contain asbestos, these are easy to get at, and are well known and can be seen, as these are above ground.

In Odiham case, as I understand it, records have been lost where toxic items may have been dumped and buried during the 2nd world war and just after, therefore problem is not knowning where theses items area on or around the airfield.

Therefore the two airfields are not the same