RAF to scrap twin-seat Typhoons

[Ghost from above]

More cost cutting measures.Well there goes the chance of being a back seat passenger

http://www.janes.com/article/77413/raf- ... t-typhoons

[paddyboy]

Seems a bit short-sighted

No surprise there then

[C24]

Four eyes are better than two as the saying goes. With the amount of info gathered and requiring assimilation nowadays a RIO strikes me as being a major requirement for modern aircraft.

Ps. Don't forget the BIG Moon this evening

[TARGET]

Glad to see Janes are on the ball and up to date with there information.If you look on Kevins "milky 01" Coningsby site you will see this has been underway for months (photos on site) with two airframes completed and others under way.

[Agent K]

"Four eyes are better than two as the saying goes. With the amount of info gathered and requiring assimilation nowadays a RIO strikes me as being a major requirement for modern aircraft."

They never did fly operationally with 2 crew, these are pure trainers and the back seat was never for WSO/RIO's.

It's interesting as always have thought similarly, but on talking to a number of aircrew, ex Tornado, they all state that single crew operation today, with todays automation, is as good as two crew of eras past and that they didn't see an issue with it.

[Snoop 95]

Friend of mine was a back-seater in Tornados and his version is that he had the heavist workload and the guy in front just 'drove where he told him to go'!

[Vulcanone]

Aside from this being posted in the Typhoon updates on the mess section already

All is not lost, they are keeping the Tranche 2 twin seaters...

Anyway, Once Simulators showed they were getting better the writing was on the wall. Lockheed Martin has been upto it for years F-117, F-22 and now F-35 not having twin sticks kind of sums it up

[PR9]

Is this just a cull of the Tranche 1 early twin tubs?

[C24]

I was partially prompted to make the comment by the incident http://www.airproxboard.org.uk/uploaded ... 017002.pdf .
I appreciate that the aircraft was not intended for dual seat operation.

[Agent K]

It's an interesting discussion. Like you my feel has always been that 2 pairs of eyes are better than one and in a high workload environment again, 2 should be better than 1. I've asked the question of a few pilots and navigators (including Tornado F3 back seater, front seater, base and squadron commanders/leaders and a Typhoon test pilot), and they all suggested that these days, there was not so much a need for a back seater.

i still can't work out how a pilot flies the Typhoon whilst using a targeting pod too! bit of the old rub your tummy/pat your head scenario!

[Vulcanone]

Well I think someone on Uncle Prune summed it up (not quite the same wording but you get the picture)

The RAF has decided Sims are pretty good. And so as they are the oldest least upgradeable jets in the fleet, they no longer want them. And are not prepared to store them or maintain them while there. And so its rather simple end results wise

[PA200]

Agent K wrote:

i still can't work out how a pilot flies the Typhoon whilst using a targeting pod too! bit of the old rub your tummy/pat your head scenario!

In simple terms he doesn't, the Flight Control System (FCS) does. Typhoon is unstable in pitch and the Flight Control Computers (FCCs) fly the aircraft. The pilot can't get into a situation where he/she would lose control because the FCS won't allow it. Its called "care free handling" plus with modern Pods like Litening III once it is slewed onto a target or area of interest its locked to that point. As long as it has a good field of view it will track it automatically, everything about Typhoon and its design is to reduce the pilots workload. And getting back to the twin seat early tranche jets they are like some wives...very high maintenance!

Regards

[SCARECROW]

So will these be RTP'd in situ or sent to Shawbury ? I guess in situ as it'll seem easier to keep all parts on at lease the same base ?

[Vulcanone]

They are being done at Coningsby

[SCARECROW]

OK thought so, just have to make do with the single seaters here then !!

[Pendennis]

I suspect that the numbers of two-seaters vs single seaters was based on previous experience. In the past there has been a relatively high attrition rate with the two-seat training aircraft; this has not happened to the Typhoon fleet and as the ZJxxx T.3s are effectively obsolete why not make the best use of them - spare parts.

[twamoran]

Out of interest, what’s the process for scrapping a Typhoon hulk which (unlike the metal Tornado fuselage) is made from a composite material? I’ve seen the pics on Kevin’s excellent site of at least one thoroughly stripped tranche 1 trainer lying out on the grass awaiting disposal. I’m assuming as scrap but maybe storage?

[3051Howe]

Out of interest, what’s the process for scrapping a Typhoon hulk which (unlike the metal Tornado fuselage) is made from a composite material? I’ve seen the pics on Kevin’s excellent site of at least one thoroughly stripped tranche 1 trainer lying out on the grass awaiting disposal. I’m assuming as scrap but maybe storage?

That one on Kevin's website is one that was done under RTP. From what I've heard they're having issues around what they do with the airframes. They get scavenged for all usable parts for other jets, but the airframes themselves aren't particularly simple to dispose off. Rumour has it, its mainly to do with the intakes as the design of them is Top Secret.

[Blackcat1]

Where will the instructor sit! On the pilots lap! :-)

[Doughnut]

A lot of the airframe parts and most of the wing are carbon fibre. This can be difficult to dispose of, it can be expensive to recycle safely and will have very little 'scrap' value. Expect the fuselages and wings will end up cocooned and stored at the back of a hangar or simply buried in land fill.