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The end of LL at Thirlemere?

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toom317
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The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by toom317 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:21 pm

A segment on BBC breakfast this morning had a report about putting zip wires across Thirlmere. The plan is to put 4 zip wires across the reservoir, you go for a wee walk, and take one of 4 zip wires back across. Given the distance and heights required, that would effectively put an end to LL traffic over Thirlmere.
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H.A.Bucken
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by H.A.Bucken » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:43 pm

I've not posted anything to my local 'rag' about this as they don't publish letters from 'Scenic in the Mist' (copyright)! but I cannot see it going through. I hope there have been discreet objections from the M.O.D., for want of ruffling feathers of 'time-share correspondents' to the same rag that complain about low fliers. The local planning board should have allowed the Honister zipwire project; that would have been sufficiently out of the way.
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by dunmailbiffa17 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:29 pm

This has been going on since the summer,and has been very divisive,on social media the battle has taken place between those in favour of the developers and those against.
https://www.facebook.com/zipoffThirlmere/
http://zipoff.org/,
It is now up to The LDNPA ,
The height of these invisible wires(as Tree Top Trek described to those who said that the wires would ruin the view) would be 427 ft,as far as the M.O.D goes,they must have Nav lights on the towers.
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filmman
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by filmman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:02 am

From a flying perspective invisible wires at that height are dangerous. I know there are plenty of power cables, but they are far lower and have frequent pylons. There have been plane collisions reported in Europe on high cables even when there are large balls on them. Looking ahead if this one goes ahead there could be a proliferation of similar ones with statistically inevitable consequences. Hope the zip wire operator has good nsurance.
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jem60
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by jem60 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:04 am

No consequences. Pilots will have to fly higher than the cables and wires. Minimum height set at briefing. No pilot is knowingly going to fly lower than the minimum safe altitude for that sector. Responsibilities insurance wise would be in the M.O.D hands. Simples.

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C24
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by C24 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:13 am

:S

The whole project seems daft to me. A total waste of time and money to even suggest such a thing. Roll on global warming.
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by Rotörhead » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:58 pm

I can't see it happening. At the very least, you're spoiling the view of one of the most beautiful, natural areas of the UK, it's a national park - I can think of very few natural areas where something like this would go ahead? Most zip wires I can think of are all low to the ground and out of the way... this seems to suggest that it would be between the mountains on either side of the valley? That's crazy.

If it does go ahead then yes, I can see it killing low level fast jets through that section - I would imagine that helicopter traffic could still fly through below the wires (depending on the height) - I've seen it done before with power cables, but that's just my thoughts - I don't fly helicopters or fast jets (as much as I wish I did)
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by filmman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:33 pm

Several helicopters, including military ones, have fatally collided with cables in Europe. From personal experience I have seen civil aircraft where they should not be. Planes have a habit of colliding with large objects called mountains. Pilots become lost, particularly in adverse weather and at night. A helicopter flying in fog crashed into a tower crane in London. Pilots at low level, particularly if lost, sometimes follow obvious routes, such as valleys .........No one is perfect, so don't be surprised at pilots continually colliding with high wires.
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by jem60 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:01 pm

FILMMAN. Oddly enough, I was going to say, but omitted to do so, that many aircraft had collided with hills etc. [CFIT== Controlled Flight into Terrain.] It's just that I don't think a few wires are going to add greatly to those statistics in my opinion. The possibility of colliding with something solid is always a possibility, and aircraft will always collide with buildings, cranes, wires etc. The fault is not that of the wires. { I used to fly close to Stokenchurch GPO Tower for quite a few years, and it's in a very busy area for light aircraft and low time pilots. Nobody has hit it yet. despite it being obscured by cloud at times.] If flight planning is done correctly, then there is little excuse for hitting solid objects, even if they can't be seen. Remember the six 'p's connected with all flying. Prior Planning Prevents P.ss Poor Performance. Regards, John.

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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by H.A.Bucken » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:01 pm

19th: It was confirmed on Radio Cumbria this morning that the M.O.D. has formally objected to plans for zip-wires in the Thirlmere area.
Roger

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toom317
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by toom317 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:21 pm

H.A.Bucken wrote:19th: It was confirmed on Radio Cumbria this morning that the M.O.D. has formally objected to plans for zip-wires in the Thirlmere area.
Roger
It was also a subject on the Jeremy Vine show yesterday, I did send a comment in about the flying, but it wasn't mentioned. Hopefully the M.O.D. will get this stopped.
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Ghost from above
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by Ghost from above » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:20 pm

Bit in the daily fail

Zipwire built along Lake District could down PLANES say defence bosses http://dailym.ai/2FXPH9Y
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by Andy_99 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:56 am

Apparently the decision lies with the National Park Authority now call me a cynic but........

It's one of it's remits to promote Tourism - Mmm the Ziplines could be argued to be doing this & also it'll make all those noisy planes go away restoring peace & tranquility to the area. Lets face it the RAF don't stop to to spend any money.

Another is - To protect the insterests of the resident's - Don't the local farmers complain on a regular basis about the noise unsettling the livestock.

Much as I hate to say it I can see the ziplines being approved & oh fudge all thought given to the need for low level flying, why they can do it in somebody elese's airspace.

In my opinion the idea should never have even got past the local planning stage

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toom317
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by toom317 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:32 pm

Andy_99 wrote: Lets face it the RAF don't stop to to spend any money.
Nope, but the folk who go there to photograph the planes do.
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Dan D'Air
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by Dan D'Air » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:53 pm

I do hope that somebody who is producing "the case against" reads this. I for one will cross off any planned trips to Dunmail Raise and the Lakes, if this goes ahead. I'll spend my money elsewhere.
Dan
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dunmailbiffa17
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by dunmailbiffa17 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:53 pm

To add to a previous contribution,i live and work in the area and have reached a decade of LL Photography(why i'll never know),in that time i have seen 2 previous attempts by Tree Top Trek to gain Zip Wires at Honister and Ullswater fail,the latter only because of public out cry.This current one started last summer,TTT where consulting various stakeholders and as i said before the majority of their exposure was on Facebook,which included the M.O.D. and RAF in particular in which the latter responded,the details of which can be found here and the most recent one(T+C's) apply.
http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/planning ... plications.
It seems that when it came to submitting their application to LDNPA that they must have took what the M.O.D said as gospel or more likely they did not give the M.O.D all the facts,hence the M.O.D's recent objection let alone the LDNPA consulted the M.O.D once the developers proposal was submitted.The Park is not M.O.D estate if it was this application would not happen,also Thirlmere is a Reservoir owned along with surrounding land by United Utilities and whose land is at the very heart of this proposed development.The most important person in The Lakes at present is CEO of LDNPA who in a rare interview revealed -The LDNPA has said it will provide a “substantive” update on its view of the Thirlmere Activity Hub development no later than next Wednesday, January 24 – the day it will confirm whether or not the application will be considered at the meeting of its development control committee on February 7.If you have no interest in LL Photography,no interest in The Lakes then none of this will matter,but it could happen elsewhere,and in terms of Aviation and Military in particular a long history dating back to WW2 could stop on the Windermere/Ambleside to Bassenthwaite Lake flow route,there are other routes such as The Langdales,Ullswater,Lune Gorge Valley,Penrith Valley but the Thirlmere route takes the most traffic.The LDNPA have the final say.
Last edited by dunmailbiffa17 on Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AndrewBarclay
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by AndrewBarclay » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:37 pm

If you want to bring this issue to a wider audience, I recommend a letter to Editor of the "Times" or even the "Daily Distress" and our old friend the "Daily Wail"

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dunmailbiffa17
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by dunmailbiffa17 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:42 pm

:pop:
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AndrewBarclay
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by AndrewBarclay » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:04 pm

AndrewBarclay wrote:If you want to bring this issue to a wider audience, I recommend a letter to Editor of the "Times" or even the "Daily Distress" and our old friend the "Daily Wail"
In the comment section of today's Times page 25 there is an article by Libby Pervis about The Zip wire's.
There is growing opposition ranged against there installation Lord Bragg ( Melvin ) is rallying more opposition.

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Dan D'Air
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Re: The end of LL at Thirlemere?

Post by Dan D'Air » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:32 pm

According to The Times today, the application for the zipwires has been withdrawn. :thumbs:
Dan
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