MoD rule out A400M Atlas in flight refuelling

[Ghost from above]

Article following FOI request

I'm setting up a 24/7/365 company constantly running an exercise! Or maybe it may be cheaper to pay our NATO cousins to refuel it.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/mod-rul ... -contract/

[Freeman Lowell]

But Airbus has successfully tested an extended helicopter refuelling hose and ZJ120 D Merlin HC4 was sporting a refuelling probe at Yeovil on Wednesday this week...
Freeman

[filmman]

Not surprised, different contract seen the same stupidity. Is MOD fit for purpose in starting projects and negotiating contracts, Their track record says no. Recent "good news" is that the longer range British bolt action Lee Enfield rifle has seen off the USA 5.56mm rifle system. Afghans, amongst others cheated by using Lee Enfields. So, USA going for larger round/new rifle system. Hopefully MOD will end up with a better rifle system than the SA 80 - but will they?
Filmman

[page_verify]

The contract details mentioned above only refer to fixed wing aircraft, so presumably the Merlin can get its fuel from elsewhere?

[Seaking93]

But Airbus has successfully tested an extended helicopter refuelling hose and ZJ120 D Merlin HC4 was sporting a refuelling probe at Yeovil on Wednesday this week...
Freeman

Was it a refuelling probe or the data probe(pitot tube) ?

[Supra]

I've said all along that through signing-up with Airtanker the UK pays the highest price per flight hour * for the least capable Voyager/330 in the World!.... & worse than that they have the RAF's scrotum in a vice for the next 17 years! robbin' !
Did anybody do the arithmetic or read the fine-print before signing that Contract? One would expect the A400 Atlas to be a fine refueler for the Joint Helicopter Force & for long-range humanitarian/SAR missions beyond those Coastguard toys.
Also interesting to see the Italian C-130 tanking a Merlin HC3 on page 40 of Rich' Pittman's new Merlin book, as no UK AAR platform was capable!
Indicating a clear perceived requirement, like the ItAF HH-101 Ceasar?
* Don't ask for a link, just read stuff from the last few years to see what specification a/c we have for the money the UK (we) pay!

[Seafire 47]

Makes you wonder how many MP's are Airtanker shareholders.

[filmman]

The problem is desparate politicians who really wanted a mega credit card. Private Finance Initiative was a clever wheeze to buy kit without the overall cost immediately appearing in the Government accounts as spend. Hospitals, aircraft, etc,. Unfortunately there often was no existing competitive market that kept prices down - supplier/bidder had virtually to be created. So desperate politicians paid too much and accepted onerous terms, like sole provider. You can't blame the contractors for making the as much money as possible. Consequences could be a failing PFI hospital is kept open but a neighbouring efficient hospital is closed. I would not be surprised if helicopter refuelling was not covered in the contract or the providers lawyers try to persuade the Courts that it was.
Filmman

[Freeman Lowell]

But Airbus has successfully tested an extended helicopter refuelling hose and ZJ120 D Merlin HC4 was sporting a refuelling probe at Yeovil on Wednesday this week...
Freeman

Was it a refuelling probe or the data probe(pitot tube) ?

Hi Bob,
The Merlin was parked down the western end, so from 25yds away It was clearly a green, cranked, refueling probe on a grey aircraft. It was probably the same probe used in the trials we saw above Yeovil, all those years ago, with the Italian C-130 mentioned above .
Freeman

[Vulcanone]

And can anyone remember which particular bunch of over inflated Windbags... Sorry MPs it was that though up the PFIs...

[bizfreeq]

Since when do we have a requirement or even a need to refuel helicopters? We have none currently capable of taking on fuel so a tanker capable of doing so is another complete waste of money surely? The Merlin trial was on a loaned airframe, and means nothing in view of the M.o.D being involved (not saying they weren't but it's no indication of that) and the cost to convert a fleet of helicopters for IFR would be colossal and so another utter waste of money!

[Seaking93]

But Airbus has successfully tested an extended helicopter refuelling hose and ZJ120 D Merlin HC4 was sporting a refuelling probe at Yeovil on Wednesday this week...
Freeman

Was it a refuelling probe or the data probe(pitot tube) ?

Hi Bob,
The Merlin was parked down the western end, so from 25yds away It was clearly a green, cranked, refueling probe on a grey aircraft. It was probably the same probe used in the trials we saw above Yeovil, all those years ago, with the Italian C-130 mentioned above .
Freeman

Interesting, will make some enquires

[Malcolm]

A RAF Merlin HC3 appeared at a Fairford/RIAT show fitted with a refuelling probe. Can't remember when, probably 10+ years ago shortly after first delivery. Defenately a RAF crew - I spoke to them about it. My opening question was a bit blunt when I basically asked WTF they thought they were going to refuel from. I didn't get a sensible answer.

So I suspect there are some Merlin HC3 probes in (RAF?) store somewhere slowly corroding away.

[Ghost from above]

So tongue in cheek.
How low tactically can the voyager fly?. 100 feet like the USAF KC130. I for one would pay to see that!.Mach Loop would be fun. Assuming some ospreys get purchased for you know who.How do we refuel them,NATO ,USAF or are they defined as a helicopter and therefore no problem.

[joe spares]

A RAF Merlin HC3 appeared at a Fairford/RIAT show fitted with a refuelling probe. Can't remember when, probably 10+ years ago shortly after first delivery. Defenately a RAF crew - I spoke to them about it. My opening question was a bit blunt when I basically asked WTF they thought they were going to refuel from. I didn't get a sensible answer.

So I suspect there are some Merlin HC3 probes in (RAF?) store somewhere slowly corroding away.

There was a probe equipped merlin at marham photicall back in 2002 as well, afaik aar has never happened. Although, apart from bean counters, does anything theoretically stop the Atlas landing at a bare forward location and unrolling hoses from pods and refuelling merlin/f35 on the deck like the usmc do??

[Ghost from above]

This looks a good option!
https://goo.gl/images/a2CDh5

[ColintheCaterpillar]

The contract details mentioned above only refer to fixed wing aircraft, so presumably the Merlin can get its fuel from elsewhere?

Assuming we'd want to conduct AAR with them. Which we probably don't.

[toom317]

Although, apart from bean counters, does anything theoretically stop the Atlas landing at a bare forward location and unrolling hoses from pods and refuelling merlin/f35 on the deck like the usmc do??

That's not exactly Air to Air Refuelling though.

[Davef68]

Since when do we have a requirement or even a need to refuel helicopters? We have none currently capable of taking on fuel so a tanker capable of doing so is another complete waste of money surely? The Merlin trial was on a loaned airframe, and means nothing in view of the M.o.D being involved (not saying they weren't but it's no indication of that) and the cost to convert a fleet of helicopters for IFR would be colossal and so another utter waste of money!

The Merlin HC3s were initially delivered with the capability, if not the probes (IAT2005 one had a probe), as were the Chinook HC3s (Nor sure if the plumbing was removed on their reversion, you can still see the patch where the probe would have been)

[Andy_99]

Never going to need AAR for those............
Where have we heard that before ? Ah I remember the Vulcan & then along came the Falklands conflict. (The remove AAR was way before my time)