RAF C130 to continue in service until mid 2030's

[Philwinward]

Maintaince agreement signed at RIAT between UK gov. and Marshalls to replace the wing box on C130s .This will allow use by special forces until mid- 2030s.
Perhaps the A400 isn't the alrounder we have been told. Always thought it was too large and noisy for special ops work.

Phil

[Vulcanone]

Given the use of Chinooks for special ops work going back decades, how does the Atlas make any difference noise wise? Its actually rather quiet compared to a Wokka.

I seem to recall that a certain professional pilots forum points out the issues with the Hercs and the advantages Atlas has over them.

[Agent K]

So the Chinook is OK for special forces work then?! it's even nosier!!!

It's politics rather than suitability at play here. The A400 has always been seen to fill the gap between the C130 and C17 as a tactical airlifter. The C130 as smaller is probably better suited BUT removal of C130's was a political and financial step to take a whole fleet type and thus associated cost out of the budget that was, however, partially reversed.

[Vulcanone]

The US Special Forces use MH-47Gs, and even we used them in Desert Storm dropping off the SAS scud hunting teams, or was I imagining that?

I know its noisey, and it is far more of a dafter way to announce your sneaky arrival than an Atlas IMHO.

Mind you I can remember they actually used RAF Chinooks to confuse everyone during Exercise (Lionheart)? in 1984 on the plains of Germany.

How you ask? Well they flew 4 Chinooks from the points of a compass so each one drowned out the others sound foot print

T

[page_verify]

Different "penetration qualities for different environments" if you pardon my French.

I also saw mentioned recently, that the RAF is selling two C-130Js to a Far Eastern air force as it only needs to keep 14 and currently has more.

[filmman]

Perhaps C 130s are more expendable being cheaper, older and of lower load capacity and range; they are also a smaller target. Not endangering A400s seems smart.
Filmman

[Agent K]

I don't think you run an Air Force these days on placing "cheaper and expendable" aircraft into an operation. It's what is fit for the role. The C130 is best at what it does and the A400 is best at what it does. The A400 is tactical and will be flying in harms way if needed too.

Not sure the C130 crews would perform well if they are valued as expendable too......

I'm assuming with your fleet planning proposal that you're not a high ranking Air Force Officer?!

[page_verify]

Like for like figures are always impossible to find, but my understanding is that the short C-130Js (C5?) still have very sporting short take off and landing capabilities compared to the A400M.

[Vulcanone]

Its the short C-130Js that are off out to pastures new (Hopefully) three are already in storage at Cambridge as per a post there somewhere.

[page_verify]

Well I never, I'm as confused as most then in understanding why.

[Vulcanone]

A post under Cambridge on this very forum, points out that 3 of the RAF Herc C.5s are now stored at Cambridge.

Hope they all go to good second hand use, rather than being parted out like the last batch of the RAF C-130K C.1/C.3s at St Athan are/have been.

Edit :

Flight Global has all the C.5s as retired and in or going into storage. Not quite yet maybe, as the 50 years C-130 paint scheme was in at Waddington a couple of weeks ago.

[toom317]

A post under Cambridge on this very forum, points out that 3 of the RAF Herc C.5s are now stored at Cambridge.

Hope they all go to good second hand use, rather than being parted out like the last batch of the RAF C-130K C.1/C.3s at St Athan are/have been.

Edit :

Flight Global has all the C.5s as retired and in or going into storage. Not quite yet maybe, as the 50 years C-130 paint scheme was in at Waddington a couple of weeks ago.

Vulcanone, I'm not sure where I read it, but did read that the C5's were being withdrawn from use at the end of 2016. I think possible delays with the Atlas may have kept them on for a while.

On a side note, most of the Hercs have refuelling probes fitted now, but I can't recall ever seeing any pics recently, of any RAF Hercs actually conducting AAR. Does the Herc fleet actually do any AAR?

[filmman]

I did not say that crews are expendable; you still need a crew what ever is used. Being pragmatic the C130s were cheaper to buy and are more used. They have lower load and range. Just because there cheaper does not mean they are less capable for special forces use, in fact they might well be better at it. Do you need a large payload for such tasks? Do you need a larger target which is more dangerous for the crew The larger A400 is more needed for large freight movement, though it can also be used. A damaged, inoperable C130 causes less capacity reduction than a A400. Unfortunately, some high ranking officer has to make such decisions and live with them.
Filmman

[Yammer]

I have heard them on the box ( radio ) recently doing tanking

[page_verify]

I remember hearing that the C-141s were used to carry dangerous cargo in their last few years as they were less valuable than the newer C-17s.

[Agent K]

I think we're loosely in agreement re the C130, I think it is better for the role, it has special forces fit already etc., and yes the A400M does have a tactical role and performance, as seen recently, but fills a void between the C130 and C17, and is at the larger end of what might be needed.

[Andy_99]

We need to purchase some Ospreys & C27 Spartan's
Perfect for the job.

[Davef68]

The C5s are going because they have been trashed the hardest, I also seem to recall they can't carry the Special Forces DAS systems due to problems they caused with the airflow over the tail (They were removed from the few that got them)

IIRC the A400Ms are still restricted to not allowing parachutists to use the side doors, which may also be a factor