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Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future order

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bizfreeq
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by bizfreeq » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:43 am

Scudpilot wrote:
1marshn30 wrote:Second Hand Harriers anyone, Oh sorry sold them to USMC to sit in the Desert
Didn't take long :lol:
It never does :roll: You'd think after 6+ years people would have learned to live with it, they've gone and cannot come back!
Cheers
Mark



If our airforces are never used, they have achieved their finest goal.
— General Nathan F. Twining

Agent K
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by Agent K » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:48 am

the concerned wrote:I am hoping we replace the typhoon with the f-35 rather than embarking on any crazy European projects.
Like the Tornado/Typhoon/A400M? crazy projects...........

Vulcanone
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by Vulcanone » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:00 am

Richard

We ain't buying 238 Typhoons anymore.

The original late 80s plans envisaged 250, and after it finally flew that dropped to 232 about the time of contract signatures. With all the bungling and whatnot over Tranches and workshare, and added exports offloading jets, we are now only getting 160 unless by some miracle they change that.

Some of which may have gone by the time the last RAF Tranche 3s are built....

filmman
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by filmman » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:14 am

Just a thought, can you launch a non VTOL F35 up the QE II sky ramp, with or without a catapult? And could it carry more payload. The Navy is noted for improvisation.
Filmman

Vulcanone
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by Vulcanone » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:41 am

The 2010 SDSR plan was to buy F-35C instead of F-35B.......... Except the carriers were apparently already too far ahead construction wise to go and change the front end it seemed

Politicians never thought of that bit clearly :whistle:

MRTT
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by MRTT » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:47 am

Vulcanone wrote: Politicians never thought of that bit clearly :whistle:
No change there then. ;)

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Freeman Lowell
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by Freeman Lowell » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:53 am

Vulcanone wrote:Some of which may have gone by the time the last RAF Tranche 3s are built....
The RTP line at Coningsby already has aircraft allocated :'(
Freeman
It’s not what you look at that matters. It’s what you see.

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Richard B
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by Richard B » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:05 am

Vulcanone wrote:Richard

We ain't buying 238 Typhoons anymore.

The original late 80s plans envisaged 250, and after it finally flew that dropped to 232 about the time of contract signatures. With all the bungling and whatnot over Tranches and workshare, and added exports offloading jets, we are now only getting 160 unless by some miracle they change that.

Some of which may have gone by the time the last RAF Tranche 3s are built....
Cheers for clearing up the numbers, was not that far out.
But it does prove the point that when we see reports of say we are having 160 aircraft, This does not mean we will have 160 in service at one given time.

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PR9
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by PR9 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:36 am

Mixed fleet of A & B seems way to go.

Would like some of the Harriers back, for museums. Never did get to see that cammo scheme one, and there's only a handful preserved over here. :(
MISSING - x1 Air Force.
If found please return to the UK.

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Thunder
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by Thunder » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:13 pm

filmman wrote:Just a thought, can you launch a non VTOL F35 up the QE II sky ramp, with or without a catapult? And could it carry more payload. The Navy is noted for improvisation.
Filmman

Might be possible if all factors were correct ie overall weight, wind speed over deck etc etc..... however getting it back on deck would be nearly impossible.

Malcolm
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:20 pm

PR9 wrote:Mixed fleet of A & B seems way to go.
Whose tankers are you going to use to refuel the 'A's when they're actually required to go anywhere?

A 'C' only fleet was the way to go back in 2010, but that boat has now sailed - literally. We'll end up with the RN operating jump jets that the RAF wanted to replace the Harriers, and the RAF operating the Navalised C's that can't be used off our huge carriers.

I'm off to watch another Yes Prime Minister episode. It's all beginning to make sense :'(

tm74sqn
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by tm74sqn » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:51 pm

Surely if the UK bought a non-VTOL F-35 it would be the USAF's F-35A version, not the US Navy's F-35C version?
TM74

Malcolm
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:04 pm

tm74sqn wrote:Surely if the UK bought a non-VTOL F-35 it would be the USAF's F-35A version, not the US Navy's F-35C version?
TM74
And whose tankers are you going to use to refuel the 'A's when they're actually required to go anywhere? F-35A is boom refuelling only and Voyager doesn't have a boom.

And don't call me Shirley. :P

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Gary
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by Gary » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:48 pm

Malcolm, there has been various reports the RAF are looking at converting a couple of Voyager to boom. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/raf-int ... ker-fleet/
Posh are going to Wembley (albeit for a tin cup)

Malcolm
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:20 pm

Gary wrote:Malcolm, there has been various reports the RAF are looking at converting a couple of Voyager to boom. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/raf-int ... ker-fleet/
Which is going to cost how much? I suspect it's going to make the reported £2Bn (in 2012?) to put cats and traps on the carriers look cheap.

The Airtanker contract runs till 2035. A couple won't be enough. I suspect it's a 'foot in the door' proposal by the RAF under the guise of it being enough for Sovereign P-8/RC-135 ops. If the RAF then wants to buy significant numbers of F-35A's I suspect the entire KC2 fleet would need converting - including those leased out to Bucket and Spade airlines.

If the cost of converting the carrier is anywhere near the cost of converting 7+ Voyagers to boom then I think we should bite the bullet, do the carriers and buy F-35C. I'll bet we don't though.

page_verify
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by page_verify » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:34 pm

Malcolm, The various P-8 and F-35 threads on the old folks home that's PPrune make it sound feasible if we want to do it rather than prohibitively expensive. It may well turn out to be cheaper than getting a full probe capability for the F-35s, who knows? The only thing our Voyagers wouldn't be able to do is receive fuel up through their booms, but that's an aircraft limitation.

filmman
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Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord

Post by filmman » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:53 pm

Perhaps it would be cheaper to scrap the "clever" people in the MOD who continue to make incredibly stupid decisions. Whose side are they on? What is the next cock up? If only Yes Minister/ Prime Minister was still being made we might be more in the know!
Filmman

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