Thai Gripen Crash- Hat Yai

[Supra]

Yeah! I know a bloke who walks his dog near my house who knows a guy that drinks with his uncle, who builds ejection seats for the Gripen.... & he wants to know why the pilot didn't use it? I'm saying nothing, coz I don't wanna upset the dog!
For lighten-up?

[jem60]

For goodness sake, Vulcanone. None of us, pilots or otherwise KNOW what caused the crash. The word is SPECULATION, which is very different from knowing!.
Read Supra's last line!.

[Vulcanone]

Firstly I have no need to lighten up given that someone died in this accident, and no I don't speculate whatever it was that caused it to crash.

I pity my colleagues at Saab, who are having to deal with this and no Supra, my friend the Vice President of Communications in Thailand is not a dog either.

Some on here that know me, will know which Aviation publishers I worked for in both London and Stamford. Sadly the better one no longer exists, subtle hint....

look in the titles from World Air Power Journal 7 to 37...

Or perhaps just go read the Beano instead

[Thunder]

This place has gone mad I tell ye, speculate if you wish, don't read the speculation if you also wish, easy peasy.

[Vulcanone]

Don't worry Thunder its not as mad on here as what it is on some of the other forums. And what they often come up with (mentioning no names)...

I should point out that I maybe have been a little ruffled up, as last night, I did get some news that someone I know died last week...

Tim

[jem60]

By coincidence, there was a fatal light aircraft crash in Oxfordshire yesterday, involving a pilot well known in private flying. He was killed. As soon as his name was released, condolences were given, followed IMMEDIATELY by speculation as to how this experienced aviator met his end. This is what fliers do, and talk about. I would suggest, without intending to be disrespectful to anyone, that the people who are claiming disrespect have not been part of a piloting environment, where speculation and hangar flying are the life blood of EVERY flying club. It is how people learn the pitfalls and traps. All aircraft bite, however innocuous they may seem. Nearly all fliers [self included], have made a potentially fatal error during their time, and if speculating goes some way towards keeping us and our passengers alive, then, I'm afraid, I consider the disrespectful claims to be misplaced. Why is it on genuine fliers sites it is normal and welcome to speculate, but here not considered correct. We must have a more balanced view of this. We are far too sensitive [in some circumstances] at times. I do appreciate, as I have said, that if it is VERY close to home, then we must wait till things are more in the public domain, but I refuse to go around in sackcloth and ashes until a report comes out in several years time.
When the Red Arrows accident occurred at Bournemouth some years ago, I was out of the country, and didn't know about it until a fortnight later. I speculated, and got hugely flamed for being disrespectful. I asked a particular poster how long I should wait to avoid being accused of being 'disrespectful', and received no reply. Therefore I go with my own thoughts on this. I suspect that the fliers and ex-fliers are with me on this. Regards, John.

[Tally-ho]

Forcefully put with strong reasoning. I am with you on this one 'jem60'.

[POL]

This isn't a forum of "fliers", worth remembering that...

Granted, there may be some pilots on here, but that is not the core audience/membership base.

[Agent K]

I don't think that there is an issue with informed comment and discussion, but as EGVP says, there are many non fliers and pure enthusiasts on the forum.

I've seen people over exaggerate their aviation and aviating experience, claim to be connected to those who have perished, or the family members of those who have perished and have seen enthusiasts making bold statements when clearly they do not have an idea about the operation of aircraft or their systems or technology.

Not easy to answer other than asking that people apply common sense, show respect, don't speculate without being informed or understanding what you are talking about, ask instead. I think this applies to all here.

[Sparts99]

I don't speculate because firstly no matter where in the world a fatal accident happens it's not fair on the victims or their close associates, especially if as has been said media watch sites like this and then quote comments made as some kind of fact or legitimate theory by an expert.

Secondly I'm not a pilot, don't work in the avaiation industry, therefore have insufficient knowledge to speculate. I think there are a large number of people on here who are in a similar position but a few who feel they have to comment on causes when they really aren't qualified to do so, just to get a bit of kudos or be seen to be knowledgeable. If the talk in clubhouses and crew rooms is good for flight safety I'm all for it and hope it continues. That's not to say I don't have my own ideas on events or don't care about the peope involved, I do, but don't share them.

[paddyboy]

I am not going to speculate, or post an opinion of this sad event.

All I will say is that 'jem60' is/was/has been a pilot, and knows far more than many (including me) on this forum, about flying aircraft.

I also know he would never knowingly be disrespectful about any sad incident such as this.

Just saying, that's all.

Paddyboy.

[jem60]

Thank you Patrick. It was good to have had this discussion, which has probably run it's course. A frank exchange of different views, of course, mostly good natured, and it is apparent that I put some noses out of joint For that I apologise, but I am very much my own man, with firm views about most things. It would be a dull old world if we were all the same, wouldn't.?
I will.of course, abide by the Mods decision on this contentious subject, but hope that they will at times give us flyers amongst us a bit of wiggle room with what we post. I know we are in a minority, but even minority groups have a voice. Regards, John. [Looking for kudos, or 'appearing' to be knowledgeable has never been my thing incidentally']

[Sparts99]

Yes Jem I wasn't thinking of you when I made that comment, but I have seen comments on threads like this that even to me with my limited knowledge clearly are just nonsense and not in any way helpful or informative, quite the opposite. Having said that there are some very knowledgable people on here who will share that knowledge who I respect hugely.

[jem60]

Hi, Sparts, and I also knew it wasn't aimed at me. I know you well enough to to have realised that. Have a nice day, regards.

[toom317]

Always sad to see a pilot losing their life, rip.
https://youtu.be/Q7u4cJLN-Xg

Love the irony. "Always sad to see a pilot losing their life", then posting a link to Utube.

[Ghost from above]

Official report says spatial disorientation was the likely cause of the crash after investigations with the help of the Swed's

[jem60]

Interesting. Spatial disorientation in perfect weather conditions. : Sadly, pretty well the most useless asset in flying is height above you when you are descending rapidly in a fast jet heading downwards whilst trying to sort things out.

[Supra]

Aside from....Runway length behind you?

[3051Howe]

A suggestion to the moderators. Would it be sensible to have a separate forum space to the fightercontrol mess for discussions like this, where those who wish to engage in some harmless speculation can do so freely without the risk of offending others?

Simple solution, a space for those who wish to engage in those conversations to do so, those who do not then do not have to view it and if they do go in and viewed it, well they can't then complain as they've gone into a discussion where they know full well they will find these discussions? Keeps everyone happy

[Gary]

It's easier now to have a no speculation policy, other forums allow it. Several times in the recent past what people have posted on this forum after a crash ( 2014 HH-60 and F-15C also 2015 USMC F-18 crash of the top of my head ) has appeared in the national press as fact or quoted as a "reliable source".

It doesn't help when people copy and paste things they have read on here and other forums and sent it to reporters. Or the fact reporters have dormant accounts on here waiting for incidents etc