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Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby nescafe37 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:57 pm

Well i have just to a look at that picture above and it looks like the russians were in turkish airspace for under 2.4 miles assuming the pink track is the russian plane?
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby nescafe37 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:06 pm

nescafe37 wrote:Well i have just to a look at that picture above and it looks like the russians were in turkish airspace for under 2.4 miles assuming the pink track is the russian plane?

So it must of been a slow plane if it was being warned 10 times in 5 minutes when it would of took seconds to cross that border?
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby Cornish-guy » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:59 pm

KyleG wrote:
Cornish-guy wrote:Some interesting feeds about this on ATS as well.

C.


Would take what you read on there with a pinch of salt :lol:


I have been told that they do sometimes have some quite alternative ways of looking at things on there almost like a reverse philosophy ;)

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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby Cornish-guy » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:07 pm

KyleG wrote:
Cornish-guy wrote:Some interesting feeds about this on ATS as well.

C.


Would take what you read on there with a pinch of salt :lol:



On the subject of "pinch of salt" that is how I view main stream news particularly BBC, put it this way when I want a laugh I watch BBC news or The Simpsons :lol:


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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby T_J » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:13 pm

page_verify wrote:RIP to the Russian crew who for whatever reason perished this morning.

The footage of the Russian helo is possibly un-related or fake.


The Mi-8 Hip being blown up appears to be the abandoned rescue helicopter. One Russian Marine died but the rest of the crew was rescued.
One Russian marine from the rescue team was killed, the Kremlin said. An unconfirmed video shows rebels blowing up the stricken helicopter on the ground. The second helicopter reportedly rescued the helicopter’s surviving
nine or ten-man crew.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/n ... y-unfolded
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby Thunder » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:20 pm

nescafe37 wrote:Well i have just to a look at that picture above and it looks like the russians were in turkish airspace for under 2.4 miles assuming the pink track is the russian plane?



Here's copy of the letter sent to the UN from Turkey


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Russia posed no threat to Turkey, so why on Earth they thought they needed to shoot down the a/c is beyond me. Now we've Obama blaming it on the Russians, take a back seat man instead of escalating it. NATO needs to take a step back here and let the Governments of Turkey and Russia sort this out.
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby Nighthawke » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:27 pm

Inclined to agree with you Thunder. If this isn't handled sensitively (and sensibly) it could be a catalyst for something far worse. I know NATO is/was meant to be a "everyone support everyone else" setup but maybe this is, as you say, time to step back from a potential brink. Putin is "threatening consequences" but not specifying what - yet. He is angry - quite rightly so regardless of where the fault lies. Let's face it if someone hits you provoked or not you'd probably be fairly p****d off. Better to walk away think about it after cooling down and then take action - if needed.
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby Richard B » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:36 pm

Putin is sending fighter escorts with future missions in that area, so Turkey will be foolish to send fighters up again.
those big Su 34s will have no quibbles now if anything is detected coming at them.
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby KyleG » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:10 am

Turkey would be well within their right to launch fighters again if the Russian aircraft stray into Turkish airspace regardless of whether the Russian aircraft are escorted by fighters or not, although it might be foolish to attempt to engage them without good reason.
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby das » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:48 am

The incursion lasted 17 seconds,hardly justification to shoot it down.More importantly it turns out that Turkey has been funding ISIS by buying the stolen oil from them !
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby welshandy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:57 am

Richard B wrote:Putin is sending fighter escorts with future missions in that area, so Turkey will be foolish to send fighters up again.
those big Su 34s will have no quibbles now if anything is detected coming at them.


Been reported that Russian Navy is to have a Cruiser in the Med to deal with any air threat. So doesn't appear to be any stepping back & cooling off.
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby page_verify » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:21 am

S-400 deployment to the region too.
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby Sparts99 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:27 am

Apparently the Rusian pilot is alive and well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34917485
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby rva65 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:44 am

thommg wrote:The rebel group known as the Syrian Turkmen Army has told the Reuters news agency that its forces shot the two Russian pilots dead as they descended by parachute....which I think is a war crime under the Geneva Convention of 1949.

Article 42: 1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent.

(However, airborne forces - paratroops - are a legitimate target in the law of war under any circumstances)



What regard would the Syrian Rebels have for the Geneva Convention? if they have even heard of it! The actions of a trigger happy Turkey has resulted in the cold blooded murder of a defenceless crewman hanging on a parachute, I hope this sad turn of events does not destroy the possibilities of Russia working in co-ordination with the coalition already in place destroying ISIS!
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby T_J » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:16 pm

page_verify wrote:S-400 deployment to the region too.

Noticed that too.
Russia is deploying S-400 Triumf (NATO reporting name: SA-21 Growler) next generation surface-to-air missile systems to the Hmeymim airbase in Syria where the Russian Aerospace Forces group is stationed, according to Russian Defense Minister Gen. Sergei Shoigu.

Russia's President Vladimir Putin agrees with the Defense Ministry's proposal to deploy S-400 missile defense systems to the Syrian airbase.
“By the decision of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief S-400s will be deployed to Hmeymim airbase in Syria to provide comprehensive air defense,” Shoigu said.

http://sputniknews.com/military/2015112 ... yment.html
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby Thunderbird167 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:53 pm

rva65 wrote:I hope this sad turn of events does not destroy the possibilities of Russia working in co-ordination with the coalition already in place destroying ISIS!


Sadly I suspect that the destruction of ISIS is not the primary purpose of the Russian intervention

The area that the aircraft was shot down is not a stronghold of ISIS

The shooting of the pilot is not a good action. However the rebels clearly see the Russians in the same light as the Syrian forces and so have acted accordingly.

I doubt that any side is playing by the rules of the Geneva Convention
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby Thunder » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:18 pm

Remember that Turkey have a long history of aggression and not playing by the rule book....

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/get ... XML+V0//EN
http://www.ekathimerini.com/160583/arti ... -this-year
http://www.ekathimerini.com/199572/arti ... -air-space
http://neoskosmos.com/news/en/Greece-to ... croachment
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/07 ... ace-again/
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/violat ... ince-2008/


Sadly it could be the case that Turkey have now blown any chance of the coalitions working together. It took 130 people to be killed in Paris for the various Governments to come to their senses, then Turkey wreak all that with their trigger happy attitude, lies and double standards. Good one Turkey :thumb:
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby 22A » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:41 pm

Comments from people at work today about the clear photos in the papers and lengthy film on TV. It almost suggests the news agencies were tipped off about where & when to start filming.
Or did one lucky camera crew get a scoop?
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby Thunder » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:34 pm

Today mobile phones and ipads can capture high quality video, so in reality anyone could've taken the footage then passed it onto the various news agencies, and from what I gather the Russians have been bombing that area quite often so people would've been aware of the likelihood of more sorties in the vicinity.
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Re: Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

Postby Harkins » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:44 pm

One thing just occurred to me when I read about the Russians sending a cruiser armed with the S-300 air defence missile system, is that it's presumably part of their Black Sea fleet and thus may well have to squeeze through Istanbul to reach the Med. I guess that may be a factor in keeping the Russian response in check as they wouldn't want to loose the only way out of there.
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