Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

[nickowen]

There is an audio recording doing the rounds of a Turkish fighter controller reading Standard Warning Two. We may, I hope, assume that he has already read Standard Warning One, but where are the recordings of Standard Warnings Three and Four? And did the F-16 pilot issue any warning before engaging?

Also, nobody seems yet to have picked up the fact that the Red Air radar track appears to indicate that the Su-24 was engaged after its second incursion.

[Cornish-guy]

A lot could now depend on what Putin decides regarding the info/intel he has been given, if he feels he has been set up, that could result in him looking to seek some kind of retaliation against Turkey, if not directly then perhaps a clandestine op inside Turkey using his special forces.

C.

[Blackcat1]

I don't think I trust any of them!

[Sparts99]

A lot could now depend on what Putin decides regarding the info/intel he has been given, if he feels he has been set up, that could result in him looking to seek some kind of retaliation against Turkey, if not directly then perhaps a clandestine op inside Turkey using his special forces.

C.

I doubt he'll do something as extreme as that. There's a lot of public opinion against Turkey's reaction to the overflight, if he responds in any way militarily against Turkey he'll lose that support, and he'll risk an escalation that will drag NATO into direct action in a further response. That public opinion will keep NATO restrained, if he uses force against Turkey the gloves will probably come off and he knows that, and I suspect he doesn't actually want an all out conflict. He's using econimc sanctions of a sort now, I'd expect a lot of rhetoric, and more sanctions, and maybe provocative military activity but no actual shooting. Hopefully the politicians will use their common sense and keep a cool head, and thankfully Trump isn't in the Whitehouse.

[rva65]

A lot could now depend on what Putin decides regarding the info/intel he has been given, if he feels he has been set up, that could result in him looking to seek some kind of retaliation against Turkey, if not directly then perhaps a clandestine op inside Turkey using his special forces.

C.

To what end exactly? If Russia has been bombing that particular area on numerous occasions then Turkey would have known already that Russian bombers are flying near their border, an infringement you could say was inevitable, Turkey it seems to me was itching for a Downing without a thought as to the fate of any crew!

[Harkins]

So the rhetoric and actions are stepping up.

The Turkish were looking to calm things down according to this BBC article Turkey 'will work' to calm tension over downed Russian jet

But since that, the Turkish PM has maybe turned things up again after; Turkey Warns Russia Not To 'Play With Fire'

And the latest Russian action is to release footage of their S-400 Missile system arriving in Syria yesterday.

[tc2324]

I don`t think the Turks actions were wise, but then again the Russians aren't too bright either.

I read in the news this morning that Russia were waiting for an apology from Turkey and for the `criminals` that shot down their aircraft to be `brought to justice`.

Hmmm...., Flight MH17 anyone?

[seven]

^ my thoughts exactly.

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[Thunder]

Hmmm...., Flight MH17 anyone?

Except the difference here is that it wasn't Russia that shot Flight MH17 down, it was Ukrainian rebels.

[tc2324]

Hmmm...., Flight MH17 anyone?

Except the difference here is that it wasn't Russia that shot Flight MH17 down, it was Ukrainian rebels.

..... who were supplied and trained in using the system by..... Ta da....! ... Russia. (That`s of course if it wasn`t Russian `advisors` themselves operating the kit?)

We will never know, but I did find Putin`s `demands` very hypercritical, but I suppose that`s politics for you.

[Thunder]

Then the United States should apologise to Russia for the downing of the Su24 since it was an American built jet shooting an American made missile, all of which were controlled by an American built AWAC a/c, and no doubt an American trained crew.

I think you'll find it's Recep Erdogan that is the biggest hypocrite here, he shoots down a Russian a/c for briefly violating Turkish airspace, yet the Turkish AF and Army violated Greek airspace over 2200 times last year alone. Also he stated the following soon after the TuAF RF-4E was shot down by Syria in 2012

"a short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack" if 17 secs isn't short then what is?

I could also mention Bilal Erdogan, does the name look familiar? That's probably because it's Recep's son, and his dealings in buying the stolen oil reserves from ISIS/ISIL/Daesh, so Turkey are effectively bankrolling the terrorists that her supposed Allies in NATO are trying to defeat.

[tc2324]

Was never suggesting that the Turks were innocent or even even correct in this matter.

Just saying that it`s a bit rich of the Russians to get a bee in their bonnet about this when they had a part to play in bringing down a commercial airliner.

[Cornish-guy]

A friend of mine told me he had read about a convoy traveling from Turkey into Syria, it has been attacked by Russian Planes as they apparently suspected it was carrying weapons to back up ISIS rebels, Putin is certainly not pulling any punches.

C.

[Thunder]

Read that myself, the problem with the whole Syria/ISIS/DAESH thing is that no one is being honest with anyone else. Every country out there doing what ever campaign they are doing are doing it for their own and different reasons.

One example: The Kurds are fighting ISIS, they are being supplied and trained by the USA and the UK. The Turks are bombing the Kurds with weapons and a/c acquired from the USA. Russia are bombing both ISIS and anti Assad rebels, Turkey then shoot down a Russian a/c more than likely because it was bombing Turkmen rebels who are opposed to Assad and being trained and armed by Turkey. Really how can something as f'ed as this ever have a good outcome, I fear there's alot worse to come.

[Cornish-guy]

Some have said it could be the stand off the west has been trying to/or not get involved in, almost like Syria is a convenience to bring Russia into a possible conflict, I have heard people say that Obama has no stomach for a fight or get involved against the Bear, but its who pulls his strings that are more of a concern.
Also its getting to congested in such a little country for so many factions to fight it out or follow their own objectives - its kind of like the right ingredients for more trouble to come.

C.

[scottoz8]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the SU-24 in SYRIAN airspace, when it was brought down ???? Just a thought !!

[scottoz8]

The rebel group known as the Syrian Turkmen Army has told the Reuters news agency that its forces shot the two Russian pilots dead as they descended by parachute....which I think is a war crime under the Geneva Convention of 1949.

Article 42: 1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent.

(However, airborne forces - paratroops - are a legitimate target in the law of war under any circumstances)

Don't think the locals there take much notice of the Geneva Convention.

[the concerned]

With the Russian reaction to the shoot down how are they supposed to tell the difference between a Turkish aircraft and a US aircraft operating out of Turkish bases. Personally I blame Russia when they first started they had the incident where the Su-30 locked up a Turkish f-16 what's Turkey supposed to do. I've said this before where's Russia's awacs systems controlling their aircraft to make sure they stay within Syria's borders. With these defense systems now threatening Turkish caps everytime there's a Russian mission are turkey entitled to take action to eliminate that threat and what about if a Syrian aircraft now crosses Turkeys border are Russia justified to defend that aircraft

[Thunder]

With the Russian reaction to the shoot down how are they supposed to tell the difference between a Turkish aircraft and a US aircraft operating out of Turkish bases.

I think the question here should be 'how do Turkey identify a Russian a/c from a Syrian a/c to a RAF one'. The answer is they don't, they shoot it down without identifying it first. Now as you say what if the Russians did that?

Don't understand why Obama and the NATO heads rushed to support Turkey on this one, they made their bed now they can lie on it. I think Turkey have demonstrated enough over the years to warrant them getting kicked out of NATO.

[seven]

RAF aircraft will have a NATO IFF, Syrian and Russian are unlikely too have that..

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