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Time to climb records

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Time to climb records

Postby hernaman86 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:15 pm

Just wondering what is now the fastest, i think the streak eagle owned it for a while but just wondering if any of the new jets would claim this easily without extensive modifications, if we was talking from breaks off to 50,000ft, what would win today, i have seen the raptor and eurofighter fly and to me, the eurofighter looks like it can get off the ground much quicker although the rafael looks very fast too! Would also love to know how a EE lightning would fair against the new crop, i know the yanks had to heavily modify a F15 to beat it so would be interesting to see what people thought (maybe a zoom climb is not relevant with the new jets)
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby paddyboy » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:44 pm

I am an old Luddite, so would always back a 'straight out of the box, unmodified' EE Lightning :Wow:
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby Tiger 1 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:11 pm

I`m with you on that one Paddy... and it would probably still give anything out there a run for it`s money...two Rolls-Royce Avons in a vertical climb... :Wow: :Wow: the memories...time machine anyone :D

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Re: Time to climb records

Postby jem60 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:40 pm

'Time to height is not an easy thing to plan for a record attempt. The fastest way is NOT achieved in a vertical climb. The vertical climb is not sustainable all the way up. In 2005, I was at Thunder City, Cape Town, where one of their Lightnings broke the South African 'Time to Height' record. It is achieved by having a trade off between speed and climb angle, and requires a lot of preparation regarding fuel load, best climb rate, best speed, ambient temperature etc.,.Way beyond my mathematical capabilities. It's not merely a question of full throttle and a vertical climb, even in a 'Frightning'. Agree with Patrick re aircraft type. :)
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby LM47 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:10 pm

Interesting clip here..look at that altimeter!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqat65bmD_A
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby Timmo » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:22 pm

I could be wrong, but I'm sure I saw somewhere that a modified SU-27 holds a few time to climb titles. There seems to be many different categories in the time to climb arena so I'm unsure which one is the most relevant.
I think it would be impossible for any of the current front line fighters could break the outright record without major modification. The Streak Eagle and the SU-27 that were used in the record attempts were stripped everything, including paint to save vital kilos. The vast array of systems and sensors on the latest generation fighters would pose a massive weight penalty.
The great old EE Lightning against the latest crop is always an interesting comparison, although I think it would probably be outclassed now. In terms of aerodynamics, aircraft materials and engine performance, technology has come on considerably. For example, the Lightning empty weight is 3 tons greater than an empty Eurofighter. The RR Avon 301 is rated at 16,000lbs thrust in reheat and has a power to weight ratio of 5.7:1, whereas the Eurojet EJ200 is rated at 20,250lbs thrust in reheat, and has a power to weight ratio of 9.2:1. For time to climb comparisons, these two factors alone would have a massive influence.
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby nickowen » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:57 pm

The initial climb rate of the F.6 remained classified for many years after the aircraft left service. This T.5 video confirms what we all suspected at the time - 60,000 fpm plus.
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby iainpeden » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:49 pm

Binbrook Air Show 1982 - a beautiful clear day.
11 Lightnings took off, each rotating through 90 degrees into the vertical and up until you couldn't see them, followed by a 43 squadron FG.1 Phantom, followed by an F-15A (possibly C).

Visually the Eagle was the slowest.
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby baz1 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:23 pm

don't forget the Mig-25 Foxbat ceiling height 90,ft Mac 2.83 with 3.2 possible. check it out
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby Ghastly Whisper » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:43 pm

and the daddy of them all SR-71
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby baz1 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:55 pm

yes too true just read about Foxbat vs sr71
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby hernaman86 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:00 pm

so when the Americans boast about the f15's climb rate, its actually not that great because a combat ready f15 wouldn't get near a combat ready lightning or phantom, let alone the new generation Not really heard much on the f22 and its official climb rate, like i said, to me a eurofighter looks much quicker of the ground and climbs quicker, unless when i have seen them at riat the f22 is not really trying that hard (take nothing away from it, its a awesome aircraft
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby Dazza37 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:47 pm

hernaman86 wrote:so when the Americans boast about the f15's climb rate, its actually not that great because a combat ready f15 wouldn't get near a combat ready lightning or phantom...


You only need to look at the combat weights/TWR to realise that a F-15C in fighting trim would/will comfortably thrash a similarly configured Lightning F.6 and F-4E in climb performance...

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Re: Time to climb records

Postby Sparts99 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:21 pm

Didn't the Russians make some outrageous claim for the PAK-50?
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby Sparts99 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:27 pm

I think the reputation for the F-4 being good in the vertical stems from it's poor turning performance against its contemporaries so pilots tried to fight in the vertical. I saw an RAF F4J climb spectacularly at an airshow once but it started the climb from a pull up off a very fast low run, borderline illegal I'd have said. When Lightnings went vertical at displays they were actually at about 70 degrees not 90, from the ground it looked vertical though.
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby H.A.Bucken » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:51 am

Having just had a quick Google around, it seems the E-266 variant of the Foxbat has the 'absolute altitude' record for a jet powered craft- way up yon, but I've not yet seen how long it took.
Roger
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby baz1 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:08 pm

the YE-266M holds the record at 37850M/ 123523ft but not found climb rate yet
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Location: lincoln between scampton and waddington

Re: Time to climb records

Postby baz1 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:17 pm

baz1 wrote:the YE-266M holds the record at 37850M/ 123523ft but not found climb rate yet


on the 31st Aug 19977 Climb Rate of 40,950 ft/min
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby jem60 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:49 pm

I understand that climb rate, but is that it's average for the whole climb to height?, or just sustainable for the first minute? But the original question was 'which aircraft holds the climb to height record,' not the rate of climb record, which would obviously vary with altitude etc., So the answer needs to be in minutes and seconds, not r of c.
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Re: Time to climb records

Postby baz1 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:43 am

jem60 wrote:I understand that climb rate, but is that it's average for the whole climb to height?, or just sustainable for the first minute? But the original question was 'which aircraft holds the climb to height record,' not the rate of climb record, which would obviously vary with altitude etc., So the answer needs to be in minutes and seconds, not r of c.


5th oct 1967 speed over 500km Circuit 1,856 mph
Aug 31st 1977 Absolute Altitude 123,523 Ft
Time to climb Altitude 30,000 Mtrs 3min 10 sec
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Location: lincoln between scampton and waddington

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