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bruntingthorpe lightnings

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bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby hernaman86 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:47 pm

Does anyone know the state of the bruntingthorpe lightings, obviously they can taxi, but are they in that good condition that they could fly.
I'm going to the twilight taxi run next month, i'm not old enough to remember lightnings but i'm taking my dad and granddad who last see one fly at Northweald 87ish so i cant wait to hear the noise of these! does anyone have any photos of lightnings at Northweald, i cant find any on the net.
hernaman86
 

Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby Rory76 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:53 pm

No idea on how close they might be to being airworthy (tho I believe these things tend to necessitate a total strip down and virtual rebuild). I did enquire as to returning them to flight some time ago, and it's not even remotely on the radar
Rory76
 

Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby hernaman86 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:00 pm

Oh i know there is no chance of that, this is boring Britain, all health and safety now days and politicians who don't seem to care about our achievements as a nation! Just wondering if something has been done to the jets or like vital parts missing which would render them totally un-airworthy, like decommissioning a gun.
hernaman86
 

Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby Vulcanone » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:33 pm

Perhaps if you had sat at Binbrook and actually watched pilots going out, and not coming back after a double reheat fire you might realise there is a reason for that. Thankfully it never actually happened on a day when I was at my local throughtout the late 70s and 80s

Despite the modifications in the early 70s, it remained the achilles heal of Lightning ops till the very end. And I know the well known pilot that photographed the very last RAF airframe to go down in 1988due to an engine fire.

And this is the likely reason why the CAA is so against civilians operating airframes with afterburners.

Just a thought.
South of the North Pole, But North of the South Pole...
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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby Olicat » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:04 pm

I'd imagine they would fly if you were to give it a go, they're kept in very good condition and all the 'flying bits' work - much like the Victor a few years back that accidentally took off. But they'll never fly here due to the reasons mentioned above about the CAAs stance on afterburners and classic jets in general.

Side note, remember ear plugs - I've never heard anything so loud in my life as the static reheat runs!
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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby hernaman86 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:20 pm

Vulcanone wrote:Perhaps if you had sat at Binbrook and actually watched pilots going out, and not coming back after a double reheat fire you might realise there is a reason for that. Thankfully it never actually happened on a day when I was at my local throughtout the late 70s and 80s

Despite the modifications in the early 70s, it remained the achilles heal of Lightning ops till the very end. And I know the well known pilot that photographed the very last RAF airframe to go down in 1988due to an engine fire.

And this is the likely reason why the CAA is so against civilians operating airframes with afterburners.

Just a thought.


very true and RIP to all those brave soles lost trying to entertain us, but i'm sure there are ex pilots who would still fly the machine knowing its safety record, look there is a risk any time a jet goes up, just some a more than others! if that EE lightning was American, they would have one flying still (hell they are trying to get one flying and it inst even theirs!) but no not here, Just like the vulcan, concorde, the country doesn't seem to want to celebrate our achievements, would rather them rot away and be forgotten, plus we are an island, they could just limit the displays to over the sea to again keep the health and safety bods happy, wont happy we have forgotten how to have fun
hernaman86
 

Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby Sparts99 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:21 pm

See this list of lightning losses:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... _Lightning

34 due to engine fires alone, that's why the CAA won't allow one on the civillian register. The Lightning was hugely maintenance intensive due to the the proximity of hydraulic lines and control runs to the engines in the fuselgae, not a lot of room in there, any slight leak could lead to a fire, which led to loss of control in short order. The Lightning is one of my top five favourite aircraft but after reading plenty of books by pilots and groundcrew I can fully understand why the CAA takes this view.
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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby Sparts99 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:23 pm

Just like to add that the Lightning was not easy to display, again look at the list to see how many were lost at displays and at low level after spins.
In this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.
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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby hernaman86 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:36 pm

Yeah its a valid point, and it does answer my question, but maintaining one rather than a whole squadron would surely make the job easier of spotting potential faults, plus with today’s tech, i'm sure they could so some slight re-engineering to improve its faults, I’m not talking about redesigning a whole new plane but do some bits to alleviate the safety concerns
hernaman86
 

Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby Vulcanone » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:38 pm

You really don't have much of a clue here do you

There is only ONE F-4 actively Airworthy in the USA, With the Collings Foundation.

And if I remember correctly It had to get through a Congressional hearing before being cleared to fly. Given that the USA is even more stricter than us on flying surplus Jets for Fun... Don't see many F-14s knocking around do you? :whistle:

And carry on dreaming about just throwing jets around over the sea for fun. Go speak to the relatives of a certain Hunter crash. I wouldn't like to see their reply.
South of the North Pole, But North of the South Pole...
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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby Tally-ho » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:54 pm

@hernaman86

Nice to hear the enthusiasm from you re the achievements of yesteryear. And yes you are right, we (people and country) have "forgotten how to have fun". The nanny-state and the softly-softly brigade likes to babysit us. Enjoy your evening out at Bruntingthorpe, I have been a few times and it is always an enjoyable event.
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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby 3Greens » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:05 pm

Here, here, Tim :clap:
A close friend of mine told me some years back that on one weekend that he had been photographing Lightnings .. I was intrigued. He was a member of the 'Humber Diving Club' ! and had dived on several wrecks in the Humber Estuary off Spurn ! For many years we would daily hear the jets climbing out of Binbrook at a rapid rate of knots and climb over Grimsby, but if things went wrong with IFE there was no recovery and the safe(and only) option was was to point the jet out to sea.
Anyone who may have visited the 'Blacksmith's Arms' a local pub to RAF Binbrook and regularly visted by crews in the heyday, may have been interested back in the 80/90's to see the flying boots of all 'jocks' who had rapidly departed from their Lightnings screwed to the ceiling, with a wall mounted plaque listing their names and dates of incident.
Lightnings were very maintenance intensive beasts - and intolerant of the slightest leak :'(

3Greens :thumb:
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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby Vulcanone » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:12 pm

Ah yes Keith the delightful village of Rothwell

Well like I said everyone is entitled to dream I suppose, Tally Ho.

Myself and some on this forum are certainly Not the softly softly brigade either. More a case of we have sat back and watched over the years at countless individuals who thought flying was for fun. And some including service personnel, have found out the hard way it isn't. And now sit in a box 6 foot below.

Still Like I said dream on mate. Enjoy the Lightnings on the ground, your best hope of seeing them flying is in the USA or if Thunder City starts up again.

T
South of the North Pole, But North of the South Pole...
Vulcanone
 

Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby reheat module » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:15 pm

I believe there are a few frames dumped at the semi-official ejection area, AKA 'RAF Dogger Bank' in the North Sea.
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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby TankBuster » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:19 pm

The Lightning runs at Brunty are great, you can really feel the power of those Avons!

As for the LPG Lightnings being mechanically close to an airworthy condition I'm not sure, but they are certainly very well maintained as ground runners.
Just take a look at what TVOC went through to get the Vulcan back up in the air and that should give you a rough idea of what these Lightnings would have to go through to get off the ground again... But we know that wont ever happen for the reasons mentioned in previous posts.
I'm just glad that I got to see the type fly, and that LPG keep these beasts alive for all to see and experience :thumbs:

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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby Vulcanone » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:25 pm

Thank you TankBuster a dose of the reality medicine duly passed out :cool:

T
South of the North Pole, But North of the South Pole...
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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby TS010 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:54 pm

Yeah its a valid point, and it does answer my question, but maintaining one rather than a whole squadron would surely make the job easier of spotting potential faults, plus with today’s tech, i'm sure they could so some slight re-engineering to improve its faults, I’m not talking about redesigning a whole new plane but do some bits to alleviate the safety concerns


The Lightning is a complicated beast at the best of times. During my time at Binbrook, even with the endless (almost) resources we could throw at the aircraft we sometimes struggled to get the aircraft in the air. These days with limited spares, time, money and experienced Lightning engineers getting thin on the ground, seeing one fly in the UK isn't going to happen, even if you could get the CAA to allow it.
Towards the end of its time the Lightning safety record did improve to a level no worse than any other fast jet in service at the time. To achieve this though took a huge amount of man hours and resources which sadly became unsustainable.
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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby hernaman86 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:26 pm

don't have a clue lol!
look they could put that jet up, a couple of high speed fly pasts over the coast, the hunter crash was over land, and i'm not talking about throwing it around like a typhoon, just a few high speed passed and a few climbs which shows the speed and the sound which i think the lightning is most famous for.

of course its a shame people have died, but there will be more, and by much more safer aircraft than a lightning! but hey with your attitude which is becoming more and more common! soon there wont be air shows, ooo oooo too dangerous!!how will you feel then!
hernaman86
 

Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby Vulcanone » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:33 pm

Well go sit on the CAAs doorstep and tell them that then :whistle: .

They are the Ones who have the book thrown at them if and when It all goes pear shaped.
South of the North Pole, But North of the South Pole...
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Re: bruntingthorpe lightnings

Postby hernaman86 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:42 pm

Lol

Anyway, anyone got any pictures of Lightning’s at northweald, late 80’s?
hernaman86
 

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