12bit vs 14bit RAW?

[CosmonautX]

Hi, all - looking for advice from any Nikon shooters here.

I currently use a D7100 and I've been running into the buffer issue more and more often recently. I've tried to compensate for it by using decent SD cards - the 16GB SanDisk Extreme Pro rated at 95MB/s is my current card of choice - and while this lets me dump the buffer pretty quickly I'm still looking at 5-7fps, with a max of 10-11 exposures in a row before it slows down significantly. I've been shooting more sports recently and having those extra few high-speed exposures can make all the difference, so ideally I'd like to be able to hit 8-11 shots in a consistent burst.

I'm not going to shift to shooting JPEG, but I wondered whether the small compromise of moving to 12bit RAW was worth considering? Do any Nikon shooters have experience of making the change? From what I can see, there isn't a great difference unless you're shooting where you need that huge dynamic range or are wanting to recover a lot of detail from the shadows, and the slightly smaller file size would maybe ease things, but hearing from anyone with practical experience/advice would be really useful.

Are there any other cards worth considering that might also improve things? In my experience the SanDisk Extreme Pro has been the best, but if I can squeeze a little more performance that way I'm all ears!

[Yunglee]

I use a couple of D7200 and really like the Sandisk Extreme Pro cards. I find them slightly faster than the Sandisk extreme and the Lexar cards that I've also got. I'll be getting some 64GB cards for the airshow seasons this year and will be sticking with Sandisk Extreme Pro cards.

As for 12/14 bit RAW files, normally I'll stay with 12 bit unless it's dull and dark and I know I'll want to really pull the images apart in post. The lower frame rate with 14 bit really is really not worth it most of the time, I'd rather have the burst speed and loose a latitude in post.

It's not very scientific but that's what I do, Lee.

[CosmonautX]

I've got a surfing competition to shoot this weekend, so I'm going to take a chance on shifting to 12bit to see if I can get that little extra fps. I've got to clear my Extreme Pro cards from the last outing, but testing on a mid-range-ish Lexar I've got spare gets me up to around 7-8fps before the buffer needs dumped, and if I pause for half a second I can get another 3 frames or so fairly quickly. I suspect that with the SanDisk I could get around 10fps from the camera without too much hassle, so that's promising...

Out of interest, how dark does it need to be before you decide to shift to 14bit with the D7200? I've found that the D7100 is problematic at low light (or more accurately, low light and relatively high shutter speeds) and if I underexpose or have a really overcast day then trying to lift the resulting images in post can create a fair bit of extra noise (I often find I get far better quality just kicking the ISO up a few notches to get a better initial exposure, rather than underexposing at lower ISO and correcting in post) and having that extra bit of latitude from a 14bit file would be useful on manky grey days!

[Yunglee]

With my D7200 the frame rate is 6FPS with 12 bit RAW and 5FPS with 14 bit RAW. That's the same for the D7100. However the buffer size went up from just 6 RAW files on the D7100 to 18 on the D7200. A faster card will not increase the frame rate, but dropping the bit rate will increase it by 1FPS! To capture much longer bursts then it's jpg or a new camera!

As for 12/14 bit, it's just guess work really. I think most of the time it's difficult to tell which shots are with 12 bit and which are with 14 bit.

[CosmonautX]

Yes, sorry - I'm getting my terminology (and myself, I suspect) mixed up!

Checking more accurately now with a timer you're entirely correct - I get 6fps with 12bit RAW and 5fps with 14bit, then the buffer is full and it drops speed drastically while the buffer is dumping to SD. With my SanDisk I can get 18 12bit exposures over 5 seconds, with the first 6 in the first second and the remaining dozen in bursts over the next 4 seconds while the buffer is dumping. Switching to 14bit I get 15 over 5 seconds but the bursts are a lot more "stuttery" (for want of a better word). With a bit of care - taking my finger off the shutter release for a second or so in between bursts - I can get a smoother series of bursts, and something a little closer to what I'd like, even if it's not quite a clean series of exposures.

I've had a look at some comparisons of 12bit/14bit shots - some of my own and some online - and there doesn't seem to be a huge difference except in edge cases - recovering underexposed shots, lifting deep shadow detail etc. For the little extra speed I think it's going to be worth the sacrifice, and for cases when I really need the extra info - landscapes, low-light... - I can always switch back.

I'm not sure why Nikon skimped so much on the D7100 buffer, particularly as the camera is otherwise a decent performer for the price bracket.

Thanks for the help!

[Cornish-guy]

Hope I can chime in being a D7100 owner also, I have found a difference regarding image noise with how long you expose the image for, so for some reason faster shutter speeds are better is it to do with read noise or something.
With the buffer - it is something I don't worry about as I don't do repetative shooting just single frame usage.

Apart from that the D7100 is an amazing camera and with my 300 f4 prime the focus accuracy and speed is ecellent

Almost foregot - remember our D7100s have that 1.3 crop mode, that increses the buffer I understand.


C.

[Yunglee]

Good point and I was looking at the 1.3 crop mode yesterday (greatly increases buffer performance). I've never used it and always preferred to have the option to crop afterwards in post (or not).

Does anyone use the 1.3x crop on a Nikon DX body?

[CosmonautX]

I don't use the crop mode - I much prefer having the flexibility to crop as I see fit in post. I'd rather have that little extra leeway to tweak the framing of a shot that's almost right.

Hope I can chime in being a D7100 owner also, I have found a difference regarding image noise with how long you expose the image for, so for some reason faster shutter speeds are better is it to do with read noise or something.
With the buffer - it is something I don't worry about as I don't do repetative shooting just single frame usage.

Apart from that the D7100 is an amazing camera and with my 300 f4 prime the focus accuracy and speed is ecellent

Almost foregot - remember our D7100s have that 1.3 crop mode, that increses the buffer I understand.

Interesting. I've not noticed faster shutter speeds leading to a decrease in noise, but I'll have a play around. My experience with the D7100 is that it is pretty sensitive to underexposure, and trying to recover an underexposed ISO200 shot can leave me with a noisier image than if I'd bumped the ISO up a few notches and got a good exposure in the first place - I think there are some higher-end bodies where you can get away with underexposing by a stop or two and recover with little difficulty, but the D7100 seems to be a bit more finicky with that.

[Cornish-guy]

Good point and I was looking at the 1.3 crop mode yesterday (greatly increases buffer performance). I've never used it and always preferred to have the option to crop afterwards in post (or not).

Does anyone use the 1.3x crop on a Nikon DX body?

Yep! I have used it quite a lot it has no negatives to using it especilly if you are shooting something thats needs a fair bit of cropping, also because it puts the 1.3 crop frame in the vf, you can dudge a subjects placement as it enters the frame before pressing the shutter, there is no difference in quality vs copping in post and the advantages are -

Larger Buffer,
Smaller File size,
Less loading time on pc/laptop,
More shots per mem card,
And Faster Frame rate at 7fps.

So its all good


C.

[Cornish-guy]

I don't use the crop mode - I much prefer having the flexibility to crop as I see fit in post. I'd rather have that little extra leeway to tweak the framing of a shot that's almost right.

Hope I can chime in being a D7100 owner also, I have found a difference regarding image noise with how long you expose the image for, so for some reason faster shutter speeds are better is it to do with read noise or something.
With the buffer - it is something I don't worry about as I don't do repetative shooting just single frame usage.

Apart from that the D7100 is an amazing camera and with my 300 f4 prime the focus accuracy and speed is ecellent

Almost foregot - remember our D7100s have that 1.3 crop mode, that increses the buffer I understand.

Interesting. I've not noticed faster shutter speeds leading to a decrease in noise, but I'll have a play around. My experience with the D7100 is that it is pretty sensitive to underexposure, and trying to recover an underexposed ISO200 shot can leave me with a noisier image than if I'd bumped the ISO up a few notches and got a good exposure in the first place - I think there are some higher-end bodies where you can get away with underexposing by a stop or two and recover with little difficulty, but the D7100 seems to be a bit more finicky with that.

I have noticed with mine that the camera tends to slightly over expose, as I have to be careful with bright highlights especially the tops of airfcraft like passenger jets at altitude when they catch the sun, it doesn't cause blown highlights as the cams dr is so good I can recover the detail by pulling the highlight slider right down in LR.


C.

[Lewis MacRae]

Hi Richard,

You should consider joining the 'Highland Photographers' group on Facebook. great for advice for the like's of this and sometimes get some organised shoots/learning sessions

[CosmonautX]

Cheers, Lewis - request to join the group sent!

I also gave 12bit RAW a punt at the surf competition and it worked nicely - no visible difference to 14bit from the photos I took, and it gave me that little extra speed to help with capturing bursts of action. Not quite able to machine-gun surfers doing runs, but certainly gave me a little extra ability to keep up with the action. Short of upgrading to a new body, I think this will give me the breathing room I need for fast action

[Black Mike]

I'm afraid the D7100 Achiles heel was the buffer which was dealt with when the D7200 came along. I still manage to max out the buffer on both my D7200 and D750. Unless you want to spend the guts of £1700 for the D500 stick to the 12 bit. Otherwise the D7100 is a very good allrounder.
Mike