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Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Hi Peeps
Managed to get a few milliseconds of 'me' time after the house move
Amazing what you unearth when trawling through what can stay and what can go for the chuck
These were mostly, if not all, picked up at 'Hall Air Fetes either side of the millennium from various stands
IMG_0024 (904x1280) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0023 (905x1280) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0022 (905x1280) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0021 (905x1280) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0020 (1280x922) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0019 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0018 (1280x904) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0017 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0016 (1280x909) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0015 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0014 (1280x906) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0013 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0012 (1280x920) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0011 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0010 (1280x922) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0009 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0008 (1280x906) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0007 (1280x904) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0006 (1280x904) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0005 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0004 (1280x977) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0003 (905x1280) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0002 (1280x790) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0001 (1280x908) by patrick ward, on Flickr
Hope they jog a few memories and are worth a peek: the strength of the RAF in November 2001 alone is enough to make you weep
Forgive me for the last two
Paddyboy
Managed to get a few milliseconds of 'me' time after the house move
Amazing what you unearth when trawling through what can stay and what can go for the chuck
These were mostly, if not all, picked up at 'Hall Air Fetes either side of the millennium from various stands
IMG_0024 (904x1280) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0023 (905x1280) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0022 (905x1280) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0021 (905x1280) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0020 (1280x922) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0019 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0018 (1280x904) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0017 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0016 (1280x909) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0015 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0014 (1280x906) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0013 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0012 (1280x920) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0011 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0010 (1280x922) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0009 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0008 (1280x906) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0007 (1280x904) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0006 (1280x904) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0005 (1280x905) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0004 (1280x977) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0003 (905x1280) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0002 (1280x790) by patrick ward, on Flickr
IMG_0001 (1280x908) by patrick ward, on Flickr
Hope they jog a few memories and are worth a peek: the strength of the RAF in November 2001 alone is enough to make you weep
Forgive me for the last two
Paddyboy
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Interesting read, thanks.
Mick
Mick
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
I wonder how our current airframe numbers and types today compares with that list?
In this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Some good reference material in there Paddy...
Oh the games people play now
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Very interesting read, but very depressing when you compare what we had to what we now have.
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Sad memories of 'back in the day' when we still had an Air Force. Chivenor - no more, Coltishall - no more, Kinloss - no more,
Leuchars no more, Wattisham - no more. Apologies to The Proclaimers - Letter from America.
Leuchars no more, Wattisham - no more. Apologies to The Proclaimers - Letter from America.
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Eaho all the above comments. Current RAF assets could be written on the back of a fag packet.
Note that the JSF concept is just as ugly as what we've ended up with!
Green133
Note that the JSF concept is just as ugly as what we've ended up with!
Green133
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Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Very interesting read
200 Tornados on the books back in 2000
200 Tornados on the books back in 2000
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
And in those dim and distant days, new fighters didn't cost £92,000,000 each, which, of course, that is what they cost today, and that, folks, is why the Air Force is so small!!.Plus the fact that the newer aircraft are FAR more capable than the older ones, therefore we don't need so many, do we. Reduction is the result of technology versus cost.
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Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Interesting.
Just look at the ratio of commissioned ranks to that of the non-commissioned.
Probably more Air Officers (Air Comodore and above) than airframes.
Just look at the ratio of commissioned ranks to that of the non-commissioned.
Probably more Air Officers (Air Comodore and above) than airframes.
UK ONS CPI Rate checker for Sept every year...
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Hi Peeps
Thanks for peeking and replying
Does make for sad reading, doesn't it
Facts of life/progress, I suppose
Paddyboy
Thanks for peeking and replying
Does make for sad reading, doesn't it
Facts of life/progress, I suppose
Paddyboy
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Interesting stuff Paddy, thanks for posting.
Pete
Pete
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Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Yes very sad reading
And at the time those figures were small up to what we'd had in the 80s/90s - but now we'd love to go back to that
And at the time those figures were small up to what we'd had in the 80s/90s - but now we'd love to go back to that
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
I agree up to a point, but when the numbers are cut too far, and advanced technology needs greater support, the benefit is surely diminished? Putting the strike & reconnaissance capability out of the equation, support and transport have taken a beating too.jem60 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:33 pmAnd in those dim and distant days, new fighters didn't cost £92,000,000 each, which, of course, that is what they cost today, and that, folks, is why the Air Force is so small!!.Plus the fact that the newer aircraft are FAR more capable than the older ones, therefore we don't need so many, do we. Reduction is the result of technology versus cost.
In this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Very interesting to have a 'look back' Paddy - it all looked quite 'rosey' then. Only mentioned again on the news last night that the 'till is empty'.
Maybe that Tiger Moth I saw at Mildenhall earlier this week will be brought back into service
Thanks for posting
Keith (3Greens)
Maybe that Tiger Moth I saw at Mildenhall earlier this week will be brought back into service
Thanks for posting
Keith (3Greens)
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Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Nice post Paddy. Better not post a break down of the RAF in the 1980s or I'll be even more miserable at how things have declined.
Fighting 92 - The King Cobras
http://www.92squadron.org.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.92squadron.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.92squadron.org.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.92squadron.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
So much of what you post here jem60 is spot-on including the above, however one always has to consider the reality of combat/flight operations. If you lose 1 a/c from a force of say 200 has-been jets available, that isn't a big deal @ 0.5%. If you lose one JSF Light-thing II* from our diminutive force of say 40, that's a 2.5% force reduction & both financially & operationally significant! Look at the AK-47 'wall of lead' that downed Tornado's on Night 1 of the Gulf War. Consider the B2 at Guam whose flight-control software went AWOL! It's okay to have a 'Force Multiplier' but with that comes the unwritten "Force Diminisher" when it goes Sir Pete Tong ?jem60 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:33 pmAnd in those dim and distant days, new fighters didn't cost £92,000,000 each, which, of course, that is what they cost today, and that, folks, is why the Air Force is so small!!.Plus the fact that the newer aircraft are FAR more capable than the older ones, therefore we don't need so many, do we. Reduction is the result of technology versus cost.
* Light on fuel. Light on range. Light on weapons-load. Light on value for money. Perfect aesthetics do go someway toward atonement though
Very interesting to see so much comparative info' condensed into the scary reality of today. Thanks PB.
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Personally I suspect all the services are far too top heavy. Here is a FOI request from 2015 :
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... s.pdf.html
110+ Air Commodores, 300+ Group Captains, 1000+ Wing Commanders and 2200+ Squadron leaders. Out of a total manpower of 33000 ish. I realise that you need to keep your best people to train the current front liners, and that there are more 'squadrons' than those that fly planes, but 1000+ Wing Co's, and 2200+ Sqn Ldrs? Reminds me about the story of the RN having more Admirals than ships.
The current pay scale is here http://www.armedforces.co.uk/rafpayscal ... zDHblKpVhE
So if those numbers are correct, (110 * £102K) + (300 * £85K) + (1000 * £70K) + (2200 * £50K) = £216 Million per year spent on the top 4000 ish posts in the RAF. And that excludes their future pension costs which will be met out of future tax revenue and adds about 35% to the costs.
Yes modern hardware is frighteningly expensive, but so is the cost of employing the people to operate it, particularly if the service is allowed to get top heavy.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... s.pdf.html
110+ Air Commodores, 300+ Group Captains, 1000+ Wing Commanders and 2200+ Squadron leaders. Out of a total manpower of 33000 ish. I realise that you need to keep your best people to train the current front liners, and that there are more 'squadrons' than those that fly planes, but 1000+ Wing Co's, and 2200+ Sqn Ldrs? Reminds me about the story of the RN having more Admirals than ships.
The current pay scale is here http://www.armedforces.co.uk/rafpayscal ... zDHblKpVhE
So if those numbers are correct, (110 * £102K) + (300 * £85K) + (1000 * £70K) + (2200 * £50K) = £216 Million per year spent on the top 4000 ish posts in the RAF. And that excludes their future pension costs which will be met out of future tax revenue and adds about 35% to the costs.
Yes modern hardware is frighteningly expensive, but so is the cost of employing the people to operate it, particularly if the service is allowed to get top heavy.
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
Thanks yet again, peeps, for peeking and replying
Also for reminding me yet again of how parlous the RAF has become
Paddyboy
Also for reminding me yet again of how parlous the RAF has become
Paddyboy
Re: Mouldy memories from the turn of the century
jem60 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:33 pmAnd in those dim and distant days, new fighters didn't cost £92,000,000 each, which, of course, that is what they cost today, and that, folks, is why the Air Force is so small!!.Plus the fact that the newer aircraft are FAR more capable than the older ones, therefore we don't need so many, do we. Reduction is the result of technology versus cost.
But they can still only be in one place at one time.
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